To winterize?

[Jazzland]

Hello everyone,

I am a new boat owner living aboard a 1984 Mainship that I have recently purchased. Being brand new to almost all aspects of boating, I have been google searching and reading books that I have found on Amazon. Recently, with the changing weather, I have talked to a few folks at the marina here in regards to winterizing and what I need to do in order to be prepared for the cold. Several of them have said "just start the engines every week or two" in regards to keeping things on the up and up.

My boat does seem to run, but I have not started her up in in the 2-3 months that I have been onboard. When I made the purchase, we used a jump box that the previous owner had with them, and we ran the engines for about 30 minutes. I do not own a jump box myself, but as I was looking in to purchasing one, I thought why not just look into new batteries and getting the starting system to work correctly instead. I called a marina today that does repairs and the marina owner told me that this is not something that I should be worrying about right now and that I need to get the boat winterized. I am at a loss and trying to figure out which direction to go with my limited time and resources to get everything ready. I wouldn't mind starting and running the engines every week if that is an option, but I don't want to cause any damage my boat either. If this is completely fine, then it might be nice to move forward and work on getting her going.

To get an idea of the climate, I am in the Washington DC area. I expect that we will see temperatures in the teens or lower for days or weeks at a time. This isn't an extreme climate, but it will get pretty cold. Please let me know what you guys think and what your experiences are living on a boat in these temps!

Thank you,

Joe

 

[DavidM]

Are you living on it full time? Makes a big difference in whether you have to winterize.

David

 

[Jazzland]

Yep! Working and living on the boat. Once a month trip to FL to see my family for 3-4 days.

-Joe

 

[Chuck34]

A couple things…
First of all, I’m not that far from you so I know what you are faced with weather wise.
Secondly, a boat left in the water is much safer from freeze damage than A boat left on the hard, so you have that going for you.
Living on the boat, you have it heated, so nothing will freeze. I assume when you leave for a few days, you will leave at least minimal heat on, maybe 50-55 degrees. I suggest somehow blocking or closing off the engine room vents and leave at least one hatch open to the engine room so heat will get into it.
Running the engines 10-15 minutes every couple weeks is always a good idea, no matter what time of year, so yes, replace the batteries

 

[Jazzland]

A couple things…
First of all, I’m not that far from you so I know what you are faced with weather wise.
Secondly, a boat left in the water is much safer from freeze damage than A boat left on the hard, so you have that going for you.
Living on the boat, you have it heated, so nothing will freeze. I assume when you leave for a few days, you will leave at least minimal heat on, maybe 50-55 degrees. I suggest somehow blocking or closing off the engine room vents and leave at least one hatch open to the engine room so heat will get into it.
Running the engines 10-15 minutes every couple weeks is always a good idea, no matter what time of year, so yes, replace the batteries

Thank you. I haven't figured out how to work all of the vents/through hulls. I have peeked in the engine room, but it is scary down there.

I have a Webasco(?) Marine A/C that acts as a heater. I have one oil radiator that I have not turned on yet. I have been told that the A/C system won't help at all when the water is below 40 degrees. Would I still want to leave it on all day to keep things circulating and water moving?

Right now, I am looking at getting another oil radiator or two and some fleece bedding. I don't want to go too nuts heating inside, but honestly if I had the time to learn how to install it, I think one of those chinese deisel heaters from amazon would be awesome. I haven't been through a winter yet, so I am not sure how I will deal with the humidity. Here is my plan as of right now:

2-3 oil radiator heaters
A/C heater system any time above 40 degrees
Maybe a dehumidifier? Can I run my A/C on "de-humidity" mode instead?
Weather/draft plastic seals around windows
multiple small fans to circulate air

All of that sounds great until we lose power...

Maybe a batter bank of some kind to power an engine room heater and I get a hotel? Would one of the oil radiators work in the engine room?

 

[SteveK]

Does not sound like you have a diesel heater. Recommend it, great at anchor and even on the dock when plugged in. We go on the boat as often as possible and have turned the diesel heater on at a lower temp than electric plugged into shore so if power goes off it takes over and we keep sleeping.

 

[SeaDogAK]

I have one of those $200 Chinese diesel heaters and it works great. Compared to an Espar or comparable for thousands of dollars, it’s no contest. Maybe it won’t last as long, but for $200 I’ll just buy another one if it fails.

 

[ranger58sb]

My boat does seem to run, but I have not started her up in in the 2-3 months that I have been onboard. When I made the purchase, we used a jump box that the previous owner had with them, and we ran the engines for about 30 minutes. I do not own a jump box myself, but as I was looking in to purchasing one, I thought why not just look into new batteries and getting the starting system to work correctly instead.

I called a marina today that does repairs and the marina owner told me that this is not something that I should be worrying about right now and that I need to get the boat winterized.

To get an idea of the climate, I am in the Washington DC area. I expect that we will see temperatures in the teens or lower for days or weeks at a time. This isn't an extreme climate, but it will get pretty cold. Please let me know what you guys think and what your experiences are living on a boat in these temps!

Yep! Working and living on the boat. Once a month trip to FL to see my family for 3-4 days.

Thank you. I haven't figured out how to work all of the vents/through hulls. I have peeked in the engine room, but it is scary down there.

2-3 oil radiator heaters
A/C heater system any time above 40 degrees
Maybe a dehumidifier? Can I run my A/C on "de-humidity" mode instead?
Weather/draft plastic seals around windows
multiple small fans to circulate air

All of that sounds great until we lose power...

You've gotta get over that "it's scary down there" thing.

You're on the right track about fixing the starting issue, versus just buying a jump pack. Engines gotta start, gotta run. Imagine a fire in the marina, where your best option is to quickly move the boat out of the slip. Might just be you need new batteries; start a separate thread on that for advice. Ideally you can report up front what you've got now (battery sizes, brands, ages, model numbers, etc.) so folks can respond better.

We know (and have known) several liveaboards in the area. Some who eventually decided to pack it in and rent an apartment for the 3 coldest winter months.

It's possible, although perhaps a bit "challenging". In this area, you DO need to winterize if you don't live aboard. You MIGHT need to winterize some systems while living aboard. Were it me, I think I'd winterize the engine given that mostly you won't be using it... and that's a way to at least get that kind of worry off your plate. You'd still be able to do a quick emergency start-up if necessary.

Your plan about oil heaters, installed reverse cycle/aircon, window seals, and small fans all aiming toward good. We haven't had much of a humidity issue in winter, as long as the reverse cycle/aircons are working. Not sure what it'd be like if those aren't working and you're depending only on the oil heaters. (I dunno much about 'em, but the recommendations for a diesel heater seem on the mark, too.)

When you say "in the DC area" do you mean downtown, or on the Occoquan somewhere, or Chesapeake outskirts (Annapolis, Deale, Solomons, etc.)? Not sure it matters hugely, although good marina support might be the make or break point. What's your plan for periodic holding tank pump-out? Fresh water?

We had an '87 Mainship; thought it a really good boat.

You could change your "City" info in your personal details.... since Port St. Lucie and winterizing usually don't need to go together in the same sentence.

-Chris

 

[Chuck34]

Ok, so it is scary down in the engine room…if you are going to be a boater and live on one, better get use to crawling around in it or be willing to spend big bucks every time something needs to be done. There is a reason they are called a BOAT…Break Out Another Thousand.
Oil heater sounds good, but not in the engine room. Anything electrical needs to be Marine certified or you risk having a BIG BOOM.
True,as temps go down, heat pumps become very inefficient, so some other heating is needed. Not familiar with diesel heaters but sounds like it is worth looking into. Running a heater off batteries…not going to happen unless you have a big battery bank.
Humidity…why are you concerned with that? Humidity levels stay very low in the winter, so low that many people use humidifiers to add moisture to their very dry air.

 

[ranger58sb]

Oil heater sounds good, but not in the engine room. Anything electrical needs to be Marine certified or you risk having a BIG BOOM.

OP's 34' Mainship is a single diesel, not gas, so I don't think an oil heater in the engine room would be a huge risk. I don't remember having an AC electrical outlet in ours, though... but that was a long time ago.

Even so, I still think better to winterize the engine. If the boat has a diesel genset (would have been a dealer or aftermarket installation), probably useful to not winterize that in case shore power craps out. That'd mean exercising it periodically, and maybe that's where an oil heater wouldn't hurt. (Ours was in the lazarette, big separation from engine room. Ditto don't remember an AC outlet.)

-Chris

 

[catalinajack]

A couple things…
First of all, I’m not that far from you so I know what you are faced with weather wise.
Secondly, a boat left in the water is much safer from freeze damage than A boat left on the hard, so you have that going for you.
Living on the boat, you have it heated, so nothing will freeze. I assume when you leave for a few days, you will leave at least minimal heat on, maybe 50-55 degrees. I suggest somehow blocking or closing off the engine room vents and leave at least one hatch open to the engine room so heat will get into it.
Running the engines 10-15 minutes every couple weeks is always a good idea, no matter what time of year, so yes, replace the batteries

Running diesel engines for 10 or 15 minutes without a load on them is NOT good for them. Better off leaving them unstarted for months than running them with no load. No harm will come of them unstartedd.

 

[Benthic2]

1. Find out if your batteries are dead or just run down. Either way you need a way to charge them. If you don't plan on running your engines, you'll need a battery charger that runs off shore power, or a solar set up....but that's probably much further down the road. Your boat is constantly draining your battery. Things like your bilge pump, lights, refridgerator....even an unloaded battery will drain eventually. You need a battery charger.

2. A good first "sortie" into the engine room would be to take out one ( or all ) of your batteries and bring it somewhere to be tested. If you have to replace batteries, don't do it until you are comfortable with your charging system. The good thing is a Mainship is pretty popular. Chances are there is someone else in the marina with a similar boat. Get to know them. Boaters are generally pretty helpful, and like to talk about their boats. You need to know how to determine the current ( did you see what I did there ?) charge level of your battery. If your batteries run too low you can damage them. You don't want to get new batteries and ruin them right away.

Keep a journal. It will be incredibly entertaining in 10 years or so as you transition to an "old salt"

Also, check out the Power Squadron. They offer courses in many aspects of boating from rules of the road to engine maintenance. They have a course on Marine Electrical Systems:

https://americasboatingclub.org/index.php/courses/boat-systems/marine-electrical-systems

An often overlooked benefit of courses like these are that you will meet other boaters on the same journey you are. Boating is better with friends.

 

[Chuck34]

OP's 34' Mainship is a single diesel, not gas, so I don't think an oil heater in the engine room would be a huge risk. I don't remember having an AC electrical outlet in ours, though... but that was a long time ago.



-Chris

No where did he say he had a single diesel. In fact, an earlier post he said he had twin Crusaders

 

[ranger58sb]

No where did he say he had a single diesel. In fact, an earlier post he said he had twin Crusaders

Fair enough. Good catch. I hadn't seen other threads about Crusaders...

In his original post here in this thread, he mentioned he has an '84 Mainship so I made a mental leap that it might be the 34/MkII/MkIII type. (We had one; single diesel.)

In retrospect, Mainship also made some aft cabin motor yachts in that era, I think with gas engines... and if that's what OP's got then your warning is right on target.

-Chris

 

[Pete Meisinger]

OK, I'll go out on a limb here. (It's been a couple months since the moderators have advised me to be "nicer")

Get into the bilge, now and often! There are no buggy rats down there, just dirty water, grease and a tangle of wires.

I am aware that some boat owners buy and use their boats as floating condos but that doesn't make them immune to the ravages of life on the water. (the boat, not the owner).

A boat on which the owner never ventures into the "basement" is a boat which will sell for a distress price eventually. ie:needs batteries, old fuel, engines stuck, starters frozen, etc.

pete

 

[Chuck34]

Fair enough. Good catch. I hadn't seen other threads about Crusaders...

In his original post here in this thread, he mentioned he has an '84 Mainship so I made a mental leap that it might be the 34/MkII/MkIII type. (We had one; single diesel.)

In retrospect, Mainship also made some aft cabin motor yachts in that era, I think with gas engines... and if that's what OP's got then your warning is right on target.

-Chris

Don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing the OP’s boat is one of those aft cabin models, I believe it was called the Mediterranean. I’ve got a buddy who used to have one. A lot of people would assume it is too much boat to have small blocks, but my friends boat ran great with those 350 Crusaders. It was a great boat. Nicely laid out and ran very comfortably around 17 mph. My only complaint with the boat…flybridge was small and cramped.

 

[Crossroads]

If you have the typical plastic handheld cockpit shower, turn off the water supply to it and drain the lines. Otherwise, you will be replacing it in the Spring. DAMHIK.

 

[ranger58sb]

Don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing the OP’s boat is one of those aft cabin models, I believe it was called the Mediterranean. I’ve got a buddy who used to have one. A lot of people would assume it is too much boat to have small blocks, but my friends boat ran great with those 350 Crusaders. It was a great boat. Nicely laid out and ran very comfortably around 17 mph. My only complaint with the boat…flybridge was small and cramped.

Mediterranean came later, '88-89 or after.... and prior to approx '96 or '97 I think. And then there were some other "modern" boats in those years too, not trawler-like at all. Memory's a little hazy...

In '84, could have been a Nantucket... but I think those were 36' and 40'. Hence my earlier quick guess that his '34 was a single diesel.

I suspect he knows which he's got, though, even if we don't.

-Chris

 

[Chuck34]

Mediterranean came later, '88-89 or after.... and prior to approx '96 or '97 I think. And then there were some other "modern" boats in those years too, not trawler-like at all. Memory's a little hazy...

In '84, could have been a Nantucket... but I think those were 36' and 40'. Hence my earlier quick guess that his '34 was a single diesel.

I suspect he knows which he's got, though, even if we don't.

-Chris

Yes, you are right. Buddy’s boat was a Nantucket…nice boat.

 

[Chuck34]

To the OP, as others have said, selling is most likely your best option. If you can’t afford to moor the boat, you can’t afford to move it to the east coast, and frankly, you simply cannot afford the boat pretty much under any scenario.
Ask your mom what she wants to do with it and then do it. Yes, she can let it go with the house, but more than likely, that will be more of a negative than a positive. Best to sell and turn the money over to her.

 

[SeaDogAK]

To the OP, as others have said, selling is most likely your best option. If you can’t afford to moor the boat, you can’t afford to move it to the east coast, and frankly, you simply cannot afford the boat pretty much under any scenario.
Ask your mom what she wants to do with it and then do it. Yes, she can let it go with the house, but more than likely, that will be more of a negative than a positive. Best to sell and turn the money over to her.

Huh?

 

[Chuck34]

Huh?

Sorry, wrong thread

 

[Jazzland]

Sorry, wrong thread

Well that made me laugh :lol:

Ok, a couple of things and then a few replies...

- The boat is a Mainship 36 DC. I've seen 2 different 36ft layouts from this era (not including the Mediterranean) and one of the others I found was called definitely called a "Nantucket" in the listing. I am pretty sure that mine falls under that name as well, but that isn't in any of the paperwork. There are binders with records from a few different owners where she is referred to as a "36 DC." She is a lovely boat. I really didn't pick her, but she picked me. I wanted a sailboat and my wife wanted a powerboat. I resigned and said we should get a Trawler, and she still wanted something a little faster. This one was a happenstance, but it seems to be a rather efficient design and capable of getting up on plane if you want to burn the gas. I can't wait to go cruising! (at 1700 rpm) We will probably disagree about the speed that it will occur

- My engine room comment was an attempt at humor, but truthfully I am only familiar with the systems. I have purchased a few books, and I have spent more time on my days off reading and looking around rather than taking things apart. I still have not figured out the through hulls, seacocks, and vents. The Electra San MSD system looks very new but does not come on. I have not found the A/C strainer basket etc. I am speaking with a local surveyor in order to have them come out and look the entire thing over within the next few weeks. I originally skipped this step as the boat was live-able, and I thought I could determine if it was worth fixing up or not. At least this will give me an idea of where to focus my attention before it gets too cold. I still intend to do things myself as time permits. I will definitely be staying on board through the winter as well. I'm sure that I will be fine, but I want to make sure the boat isn't damaged!

- Engines are 2x Crusader 270's with around 4-500 hours according to the hour meter. I have no idea if they are really that low or not. I am sure there is documentation in the records that I have, but I have seen it yet. The A/C system and a few other major items were purchased around 10 years ago. The owners from that time lived on the boat and had it for at least 10 years. From what I can tell, they sold it around 3 years ago. They were cruising around Florida and as far north as the Chesapeake.

- Battery wise, I do see a battery charger labelled on the panel which I have left on. There is an inverter which I have no idea how to use. I have 2x 30 Amp electrical. Right now, when I turn the key, the engines barely even try to turn over. I have left that alone until I have a chance to get the starter batteries replaced and systems checked out. It is my intention to run them at least once a week and keep things moving once I am sure that I will not be causing any harm. I will have a Sea Tow membership and probably hire someone to show me a few things before I am crazy enough to move her from the dock. I expect that I will be hauling her out and redoing the paint, zincs, and all of that next spring.

- The marina I am staying at is Tantallon Marina in Fort Washington. They do pump outs every couple of weeks and keep the water and power on all winter. My next purchase is a $400 heated water hose which really pisses me off, but hey... welcome to boating!

 

[Jazzland]

Does not sound like you have a diesel heater. Recommend it, great at anchor and even on the dock when plugged in. We go on the boat as often as possible and have turned the diesel heater on at a lower temp than electric plugged into shore so if power goes off it takes over and we keep sleeping.

No sir. I think diesel is great, but that is a relatively large purchase or at least a lot of labor/planning to install. I am thinking the $200 Amazon set up next year, but it is too late to research all of that now unless I just pay someone to do everything. I think that I will put more thought into it and try to do it myself later. I also really like the older diesel heaters that do not require power, but again that would require quite a bit more planning. I do not want to remove my current A/C reverse cycle system.

 

[Jazzland]

You've gotta get over that "it's scary down there" thing.

You're on the right track about fixing the starting issue, versus just buying a jump pack. Engines gotta start, gotta run. Imagine a fire in the marina, where your best option is to quickly move the boat out of the slip. Might just be you need new batteries; start a separate thread on that for advice. Ideally you can report up front what you've got now (battery sizes, brands, ages, model numbers, etc.) so folks can respond better.

We know (and have known) several liveaboards in the area. Some who eventually decided to pack it in and rent an apartment for the 3 coldest winter months.

It's possible, although perhaps a bit "challenging". In this area, you DO need to winterize if you don't live aboard. You MIGHT need to winterize some systems while living aboard. Were it me, I think I'd winterize the engine given that mostly you won't be using it... and that's a way to at least get that kind of worry off your plate. You'd still be able to do a quick emergency start-up if necessary.

Your plan about oil heaters, installed reverse cycle/aircon, window seals, and small fans all aiming toward good. We haven't had much of a humidity issue in winter, as long as the reverse cycle/aircons are working. Not sure what it'd be like if those aren't working and you're depending only on the oil heaters. (I dunno much about 'em, but the recommendations for a diesel heater seem on the mark, too.)

When you say "in the DC area" do you mean downtown, or on the Occoquan somewhere, or Chesapeake outskirts (Annapolis, Deale, Solomons, etc.)? Not sure it matters hugely, although good marina support might be the make or break point. What's your plan for periodic holding tank pump-out? Fresh water?

We had an '87 Mainship; thought it a really good boat.

You could change your "City" info in your personal details.... since Port St. Lucie and winterizing usually don't need to go together in the same sentence.

-Chris

Thank you! I refuse to change my city, as my wife and kids are still in FL. This is just my floating home until I can move her back towards our place down there I am in Fort Washington near National Harbor.

As I understand it, the type of heating makes a huge difference in the humidity. Electrical heaters and oil radiator types do not combust, and therefore they do not pull moisture out of the air. Using these types of heaters on board will cause significant condensation, or so I've read? We haven't got to that point yet, but when it got into the 40`s a week or so ago, my A/C system was not keeping up on reverse cycle mode and there was a dampness in all of the rooms almost immediately. Strange, right?

 

[SteveK]

When I bought the GB36 it came with a propane heater. I removed it as I am anal about an open flame when asleep. If you are not then since you have gas engines, not diesel a propane heater may be more appropriate. Like this one

 

[Jazzland]

Ok, so it is scary down in the engine room…if you are going to be a boater and live on one, better get use to crawling around in it or be willing to spend big bucks every time something needs to be done. There is a reason they are called a BOAT…Break Out Another Thousand.
Oil heater sounds good, but not in the engine room. Anything electrical needs to be Marine certified or you risk having a BIG BOOM.
True,as temps go down, heat pumps become very inefficient, so some other heating is needed. Not familiar with diesel heaters but sounds like it is worth looking into. Running a heater off batteries…not going to happen unless you have a big battery bank.
Humidity…why are you concerned with that? Humidity levels stay very low in the winter, so low that many people use humidifiers to add moisture to their very dry air.

Thank you. What would you suggest for the cabin and/or engine area? Have you ever looked at the "engine room heaters" that are sold online? They are a little pricey, but something I have considered as well.

 

[Jazzland]

1. Find out if your batteries are dead or just run down. Either way you need a way to charge them. If you don't plan on running your engines, you'll need a battery charger that runs off shore power, or a solar set up....but that's probably much further down the road. Your boat is constantly draining your battery. Things like your bilge pump, lights, refridgerator....even an unloaded battery will drain eventually. You need a battery charger.

2. A good first "sortie" into the engine room would be to take out one ( or all ) of your batteries and bring it somewhere to be tested. If you have to replace batteries, don't do it until you are comfortable with your charging system. The good thing is a Mainship is pretty popular. Chances are there is someone else in the marina with a similar boat. Get to know them. Boaters are generally pretty helpful, and like to talk about their boats. You need to know how to determine the current ( did you see what I did there ?) charge level of your battery. If your batteries run too low you can damage them. You don't want to get new batteries and ruin them right away.

Keep a journal. It will be incredibly entertaining in 10 years or so as you transition to an "old salt"

Also, check out the Power Squadron. They offer courses in many aspects of boating from rules of the road to engine maintenance. They have a course on Marine Electrical Systems:

https://americasboatingclub.org/index.php/courses/boat-systems/marine-electrical-systems

An often overlooked benefit of courses like these are that you will meet other boaters on the same journey you are. Boating is better with friends.

Thank you. Actually I was thinking the same thing as a first project! I am looking into multimeters and learning the basics of boat electronics as well. I am reading Nigel Calder's boat maintenance book and spending a little time on the first chapter about batteries and electrical systems. Since this is a very dangerous part of the learning curve, I am taking my time. I am also a little particular, so I may or may not have spent 3 hours yesterday shopping for a multimeterswithout making a purchase I am leaning towards the EEVBlog models on Amazon which may be a little bit of overkill, but they seem reasonable at around $150.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Jazzland]

OK, I'll go out on a limb here. (It's been a couple months since the moderators have advised me to be "nicer")

Get into the bilge, now and often! There are no buggy rats down there, just dirty water, grease and a tangle of wires.

I am aware that some boat owners buy and use their boats as floating condos but that doesn't make them immune to the ravages of life on the water. (the boat, not the owner).

A boat on which the owner never ventures into the "basement" is a boat which will sell for a distress price eventually. ie:needs batteries, old fuel, engines stuck, starters frozen, etc.

pete

Thank you. I am learning a little each week. It is a little intimidating, but we will get there!

 

[Jazzland]

If you have the typical plastic handheld cockpit shower, turn off the water supply to it and drain the lines. Otherwise, you will be replacing it in the Spring. DAMHIK.

A little confused here.. do you mean the showers in the boat or something else? I don't believe I have a cockpit shower?