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Old 08-08-2014, 01:57 PM   #1
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Wing Engine

Ok I did a search and can't find much on the subject of "wing engines" on a single screw Trawler. Refitting to be more precise.
I just had an occasion where I wish I had a Wing Engine on my single engine Trawler. We had gone into Princes Louisa Inlet in BC and was coming out. If any of you have been there you know that getting there is a beautiful trip up the strait with vertical cliffs up to 3000 feet on each side, and the water is up to 1900 feet deep.
So we are going along and enjoying the view when I heard a funny "new" sound from the engine room. After inspection I find that the coolant pump,(not the raw water pump) is throwing grease from it's bearings. After shutting down the engine I could wiggle the pulley back and forth. So not hard to figure out that the coolant pump on the front of the John Deere 6068 is going out. Don't have a spare and if it goes out there is no place to anchor, (don't have a rode long enough!) and these cliffs go right down at the edge of the water shear to the 1900 depth. No beaches and no place to anchor. Engine goes out you are on the rock wall on both sides.
So the question is does anyone have any experience refitting a Trawler with a Wing Engine? My boat is a 48" Kadey Krogen NS. Not a lot of extra room in the engine room after the JD and a Northern Lights 12KW gen.
Oh just as an aside we limped into Pender Harbor and found a shop that had the parts to rebuild the pump! Go figure. I asked the mechanic why he had parts to rebuild that pump way out here. He said that he maintains 3 commercial fishing boats that have the exact same engine. Nice!
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:05 PM   #2
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Is Cabernet the old Wild Her? Sorry to hear about your mis-adventure. I would suggest giving Dennis Lawrence a call at KK Seattle. There have been a few wing engines added to KK48's.

My only advice would be to stick with a John Deere for the wing. My boat uses common parts for the Main, Wing and Generator (Lugger, John Deere and Northern Lights), which are all John Deere Blocks. Many of the pumps, impellers, filters, etc. are interchangeable. Carrying spares is easier and you can always rob parts off of one to get the other running if needed.

Good Luck,
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:58 PM   #3
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Yes one in the same. We renamed her Cabernet. She is a great boat, and things happen, but now my wife is not crazy venturing down to Mexico without a wing. She is powered by a JD 6068 and a 12K Northern Lights gen. Thanks for the name of a person to call.
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:25 PM   #4
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Mount an outboard on your swim platform. Or figure out how to use your genset to power your existing prop and shaft perhaps.

Adding a wing engine is going to be pretty expensive if you even have room for one. Then there is the cost benefit of it in the long run considering the potentially small chance you'll ever use it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:56 PM   #5
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Pretty sure Bay Pelican has a wing engine on a KK42, that could be a good starting point. Liked the 48 displayed at Sydney Boat Show just held, star of the show imo.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:40 PM   #6
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Hydraulics on my 20KW genset powers my "get home" through a chain and sprocket type system on the main prop shaft. Might look into something like that.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:54 PM   #7
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Have you asked Krogen?
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:12 PM   #8
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Bay Pelican, like many of the Caribbean Krogens and Nordhavns, has a wing engine. Yanmar 27 hp with its own shaft, prop (max prop) and fuel supply.

Three uses:

Steering when pulling into slip backs opposite way of main engine.
Back Up generator, the Yanama accepted a large alternator
Get home. Never needed one until started playing around with new fuel tanks. Have had air in the lines problems, perhaps now fixed.

Whatever you do, exercise the wing engine. We routinely enter/leave anchorages using the wing engine.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:14 PM   #9
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There was a KK44 that had a wing engine installed prior to crossing the Atlantic ocean. Maybe the owner can be reached at a KK forum. Below is an article of his crossing.

http://kadeykrogen.com/articles/page...agazine-98.pdf
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:40 PM   #10
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I think with a 12KW genset, Northern Lights has a front pulley and shaft setup for a hydraulic drive, or you may have enough juice to run a decent electric motor, shaft and foldable prop. You won't get much umph out of it, but it is, after all, a get home.

My eventual plan for my own get-home is a Yanmar diesel outboard on a transom bracket. The 27 HP is more than enough for 4-5 knots on my boat, ....probably four knots on yours. You can't buy then here in the US (EPA) but you can have one sent to the Islands, etc.. Expensive, yes, but not as much as a built-in get home system, and you can take it to your next boat, sell it, or even power your dinghy with it. If you had it hanging on your boat now, I'd buy it from you....so would a lot of other Krogen owners probably. My two cents.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:49 PM   #11
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Wing Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
I think with a 12KW genset, Northern Lights has a front pulley and shaft setup for a hydraulic drive, or you may have enough juice to run a decent electric motor, shaft and foldable prop. You won't get much umph out of it, but it is, after all, a get home.

My eventual plan for my own get-home is a Yanmar diesel outboard on a transom bracket. The 27 HP is more than enough for 4-5 knots on my boat, ....probably four knots on yours. You can't buy then here in the US (EPA) but you can have one sent to the Islands, etc.. Expensive, yes, but not as much as a built-in get home system, and you can take it to your next boat, sell it, or even power your dinghy with it. If you had it hanging on your boat now, I'd buy it from you....so would a lot of other Krogen owners probably. My two cents.

I think this is the best approach.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:01 AM   #12
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Also keep in mind that you can buy and stock a lot of spare parts before you come close to the cost of a wing engine. In the situation you encountered, having spares on board would have solved the problem, and an outboard, or even using your dinghy as a tug, would keep you away from the walls or other hazards.
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Old 08-09-2014, 01:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
Is Cabernet the old Wild Her? Sorry to hear about your mis-adventure. I would suggest giving Dennis Lawrence a call at KK Seattle. There have been a few wing engines added to KK48's.
The first thing I would do is to give Dennis a call. He really knows his stuff when it comes to Krogens both old and new. He also has the knowledge base of the entire Krogen staff and the many different configurations owners have tried.

Jim
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
My eventual plan for my own get-home is a Yanmar diesel outboard on a transom bracket. The 27 HP is more than enough for 4-5 knots on my boat, ....probably four knots on yours.
Bay Pelican, a Krogen 42, has a 27 hp Yanmar with a Max Prop. With the wing engine alone, she does 4 kts in normal seas. I have run across Krogen 48s and Nordhavn 46s wth 40hp wing engines. I think with a 48 Krogen I would go with a 40 hp wing engine.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:32 AM   #15
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>Hydraulics on my 20KW genset powers my "get home" through a chain and sprocket type system on the main prop shaft. Might look into something like that.<

This would be a true upgrade as the hyd could power a windlass , with no white smoke problems, and a bow thruster with the ON time not measured in seconds.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
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>Hydraulics on my 20KW genset powers my "get home" through a chain and sprocket type system on the main prop shaft. Might look into something like that.<

This would be a true upgrade as the hyd could power a windlass , with no white smoke problems, and a bow thruster with the ON time not measured in seconds.
And being fitted to the generator, it will probably be "exercised" often ready to go when you need it.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
I think with a 12KW genset, Northern Lights has a front pulley and shaft setup for a hydraulic drive, or you may have enough juice to run a decent electric motor, shaft and foldable prop. You won't get much umph out of it, but it is, after all, a get home.
You front mount a PTO with an electric clutch directly. You have to be aware that when the PTO is engaged you may not be able to have much electrical load on the genset.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:22 PM   #18
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Anne Louise, a Krogen 48, has the 12 kv genset with a power take off for a get home arrangement. They mentioned that they were thinking of removing the power take off and installing a wing engine. They are currently in the Caribbean so the needs change.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:38 PM   #19
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Do those hydraulic units have some sort of water cooling?I have operated machinery with hydro motors and those things have huge air/air coolers.They're also not designed to operate at 100% duty cycle for hours on end.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:42 PM   #20
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The hydraulic system for Bay Pelican's stabilizers has a ten gallon (US) tank with a heat exchanger connected to the raw water pump on the main engine.
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