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Old 04-08-2019, 11:22 PM   #1
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why recondition props twice in a year?

hi all,
I am looking at a boat with big MANs and 4 bladed props. I am reviewing work orders and maintenance and see that the props were pulled for reconditioning and balance when the boat was 10 years old. OK, makes sense.

Then the props were pulled again the next season for reconditioning and balance. There's nothing noted that they were changing the pitch.

Is there any good or bad reason you can think of that would cause someone to pull their props two years in a row?

Would some type of cavitation issue, or prop shaft issue, or cutlass bearing knock the props out of balance?

maybe the seller hit something with both props?
thanks
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:45 AM   #2
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Could be a lot of different reasons, prop strike, change of pitch or maybe vibration. Need a sea trial and see if the engines will make rated RPMs and if there are any vibrations noted. Good luck, what kind of boat?
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:54 AM   #3
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thanks for that strategy, Dave. It's a Vicem. my wife loves the look and joinery so I am giving it a serious inspection. two MAN diesels of 1050hp each; super German engines that require strict maintenance schedule. I am experienced with car engines like this (Porsche in the past and Subaru AWD now) but I fear the seller did not observe the annual, bi-annual, and quadrennial adjustments leading to some expensive repairs already.

You may have a good guess with the vibration issue; on the second prop service they also pulled the prop shafts and trued them, replaced one cutlass bearing and trued both struts.

Does that sound like vibration/ cavitation problem or what?
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:17 AM   #4
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Where are you going to be keeping the boat? I've heard MAN engine service is far more available down south, up North... not so much.

If you've had a Porsche in the past then you know the value of having local service expertise.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:24 AM   #5
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Where are you going to be keeping the boat? I've heard MAN engine service is far more available down south, up North... not so much.
There is a boat with Mans in our marina in Mystic, Ct and he gets support somewhere nearby. Not sure where though.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:25 AM   #6
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Where are you going to be keeping the boat? I've heard MAN engine service is far more available down south, up North... not so much.
I am finding that to be true with my cursory search for MAN certified techs.

MAN mechanics in Europe supposedly run a diagnostic system check after major service points and transmit that data to MAN corporate who keep a record of the service and the pertinent operation temps, pressures, flows. I doubt that system has been maintained with this boat which was serviced mostly in Florida, but most recently in Maine.

We currently live on the Long Island Sound and love it here. In another year we will Snowbird the boat so it is possible we could make one of our annual stops at an outstanding MAN shop on the US East Coast.

Do you have any ideas of good MAN techs in the New England area, Bill?
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:28 AM   #7
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There is a boat with Mans in our marina in Mystic, Ct and he gets support somewhere nearby. Not sure where though.
thanks, Jay. Great to know that I can search in that area. I am familiar with Mystic and Fishers Island Sound as I kept two different boats at Spicers over the years. I am in Milford now and Mystic is a nice trip for us.

Which marina are you in?
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:08 AM   #8
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I am finding that to be true with my cursory search for MAN certified techs.

MAN mechanics in Europe supposedly run a diagnostic system check after major service points and transmit that data to MAN corporate who keep a record of the service and the pertinent operation temps, pressures, flows. I doubt that system has been maintained with this boat which was serviced mostly in Florida, but most recently in Maine.

We currently live on the Long Island Sound and love it here. In another year we will Snowbird the boat so it is possible we could make one of our annual stops at an outstanding MAN shop on the US East Coast.

Do you have any ideas of good MAN techs in the New England area, Bill?
No, I don't, sorry.

When I was at the Palm Beach show recently I was talking with some vendors (Vicem among them) about various maintenance factors. More than one specifically noted MAN engines have a lot of service options down south, but not nearly as many elsewhere north along the coast. I share this merely as an observation, not as a criticism about the engines. From what I've heard they're great engines if they're scrupulously maintained. I've got a Porsche now, so I know what that can mean (and how that affects the wallet).

I love the look of the Vicem boats... all that wood is beautiful. Just beware the varnishing costs if you plan on owning it for any length of time!
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:32 AM   #9
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When I was at the Palm Beach show recently I was talking with some vendors (Vicem among them) about various maintenance factors. More than one specifically noted MAN engines have a lot of service options down south, but not nearly as many elsewhere north along the coast. I share this merely as an observation, not as a criticism about the engines. From what I've heard they're great engines if they're scrupulously maintained. I've got a Porsche now, so I know what that can mean (and how that affects the wallet).

I love the look of the Vicem boats... all that wood is beautiful. Just beware the varnishing costs if you plan on owning it for any length of time!
Yes, I must be certain of tech service if I get this boat. my Porsche V8 adjustments were beyond my tools and training, and surely the MAN engines are too. Maybe $6,500 annual maintenance budget for two engines IF nothing breaks.

I know the nicer yards of Florida would likely charge $15-20,000 for complete varnish job on 50-60' boat with the toe-rails and cockpit on Vicems. I used to keep up my 41' Tartan brightwork with the help of wife and a paid wood-genius friend. This Vicem would bring a new level of commitment to my connection to Epifanes.

I currently own a boat with ZERO exposed brightwork, and love the easy maintenance of FRP and Awlgrip. hmmmmm...
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:36 AM   #10
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After more than a decade of a "no brightwork" rule... I now own a GB. Only the toe rail being touched up this season... but a fair bit of coin spent on new outside window covers to preserve the interior finish. Well, more like preserve/keep the money in my wallet...

The upside to being in New England will be less UV exposure, so there's that. Florida sun is brutal in comparison.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:43 AM   #11
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After more than a decade of a "no brightwork" rule... I now own a GB. Only the toe rail being touched up this season... but a fair bit of coin spent on new outside window covers to preserve the interior finish. Well, more like preserve/keep the money in my wallet...

The upside to being in New England will be less UV exposure, so there's that. Florida sun is brutal in comparison.
ha ha. yes - wallet protection.

I was able to go 4-5 years with only touch-up of the brightwork on my Tartans here in New England, and the toerails and cockpit looked excellent. bright teak is truly beautiful on a boat.

Rationalization in progress....
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:34 PM   #12
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t

Which marina are you in?
We are in Gwenmor marina.
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:05 PM   #13
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As to MAN service, just go to their website and it will direct you to service facilities throughout the world. In your general area I found American Marine, Bohemia Bay, A & M, and Bayside. That's four in LI Sound. In South Florida, we'd only find 6.

https://ws-public.man-mn.com/siit/ma...erByCountry=DE

We have had three boats with MAN's and been very pleased with all. Now, one question I'd ask, what year are these? I'm assuming they are recent enough to be common rail. I wouldn't have experience with those before. Our MAN experience is from 800 hp to 1360 hp.

In larger marine engines, there are three major companies, CAT, MAN and MTU. MAN generally dominates the 800-1200 hp area everywhere but the US. US builders like Hatteras and Viking have been CAT users mostly but slowly they're installing more brands. MAN has an excellent size footprint for their horsepower and they run quieter than CAT's.

One other recent turn is that above a certain hp, the market has been all MTU as they're the only ones who offer the truly large engines. Well, MAN is slowly creeping up. They now offer up to 2000 hp and it's assumed they're going to continue to move up. CAT has up to 2366 hp but their recreational engines are generally limited at 1900 hp. MTU goes up to 13000 hp although generally in yachts the largest you'll see are under 3000 hp as builders add more engines rather than larger.

Here is the MAN maintenance schedule. https://www.jimmyrogersyachtbroker.c...ntenance-plan/

Now, as to the prop, could be they hit something, could be the first time didn't fix the problem, could be something other than prop. Only way to know is to run the boat and to examine it.
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:58 PM   #14
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Thanks, Jay - Gwenmor!
wow, thanks for the info and experience, BandB.


I am looking at two 2848 common rail in the light duty LE403 config. 1050hp each. I found two New York MAN dealers relatively close to me: Cos Cob, and Mattituck. Maybe someone on TF has experience with one of them.


I'll have limited time with a sea trial to check the boat, so I am doing the brainstorming now so I can focus on likely issues. You all are most helpful!


PS - I just put my boat in the water for the season. One of the earliest dates ever for me. I'll be traveling with her before the week ends.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:39 AM   #15
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"Florida sun is brutal in comparison."

THe folks in the VI and further south with varnish sing,,,,

"De Coat De Month Mon" as they sand , scrape and tape away.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:47 AM   #16
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I did that. Once with a common prop shop but I wasn't happy so I did it again with a prop scan shop and got better results. The scan shop would give a readout of the prop specs however. If there is a shop name you could see if they have any info.
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:19 AM   #17
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There is a boat with Mans in our marina in Mystic, Ct and he gets support somewhere nearby. Not sure where though.
Bayside Diesel in Mystic, CT is a certified Man shop. They are a certified Yanmar shop as well, which who I use for my Yanmar.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:52 PM   #18
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Yes I know them, the Burnside boys. They are cousins to the Gwenmor owners.
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:41 PM   #19
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thanks, guys. Noank and Mystic are good places.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:50 PM   #20
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While I have no direct usage with Man (only Cat, GM and Cummins) but friends with Mans complain about the cost of extra maintenance. I’ve always done the maintenance required and have been happy.

Best of luck to you, whatever your choice a good mechanic is important.
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