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Old 06-13-2014, 08:37 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
If you watch TV on your boat, at least get a flat screen TV, dump the CRT. A TV that runs on 12 volts DC will save the extra power required to run an inverter.

We should all be running LED lighting by now.
I agree many TV's even the ones at your local Wal-Mart run off of 12vdc. Just look at the jack on the back of the set before purchasing it. Once you get above 26" TV's they tend to need AC power. The 12VDC power on the above TV's is supplied from a wall wort. I eliminate the Wall wort and make my own DC cable.
I have also used Jensen TV's over the years as I've upgraded from LCD to LED TFT screens.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:15 AM   #142
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Power to the gennys!!!!
Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:27 AM   #143
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Eric, I can't hear you with this generator running. I have done the camping (sleeping on the ground kind), and was a District Commissioner for the Boy Scouts. We still go to the mountains, but stay in our cabin. Just a couple of weeks ago we sat on the deck most of the night watching meteor showers. No light pollution up there.

We accommodate our cruising area. Now it is hot with thunder showers. If It were not for A/C I would not be writing this from the boat. We still sit in the cockpit and look up at the stars. We can still open up the boat to our surroundings. We still fish and explore with the dinghy. We just do it in a little more comfort than in earlier times.

All in all it is a trade off. The price we pay for beautiful water and beaches to die for. We are thinking of moving the boat back north for awhile. However, the Chesapeake Bay area can be hot and Muggy with thunder showers. I have seen it 105 degrees in August.

There is much to like about cruising in the PNW. For the most part A/C is not required. Heat is. How do you watch the stars when you are inside and it is raining? While I would like to be there, I would miss our beautiful water and beaches.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:42 AM   #144
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Moonstruck it sounds like your 42 Saber is well equipped. They are beautiful boats in my opinion.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:49 AM   #145
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ksanders wrote;

"and I like to live on my boat just like it was my home"

That one's been on this thread several times. Dosn't make sense. Why would anyone seek the boating experience if they want it to be "just like home". People want to go camping so they can look at the stars instead of the mirror over their bed. People want to go camping so they can cook on an open fire. There's the "get away from it all" element too. To get away from extra noise and frivolous extra convenience.
Eric

We both know that you do not have to "rough it" to enjoy life on the water.

I can sit in the pilothouse or the cockpit, or up on the flying bridge of our boat and enjoy the sights and the sounds and the smells of the ocean. I can watch the otter swimming nearby. Perhaps a salmon will jump, making me ponder the circle of life. If I'm lucky a whale will surface nearby.

I prefer to do all this with the conveniences I expect, and some I need. While I'm up having that first cup of coffee, possibly my satellite phone will ring. A customer calling to place an order, or inquiring about a product I sell. You see, I am not a rich man, I still have to make a living. So, I'll take care of my customer, earn some money, then get back to watching the otter play.

Then in 5 years and 9 months, when I turn 58 I will be able to retire from my job in the Prudhoe Bay oil field, and cruise as much as I want. I'll be able to retire early because I have the convinces my boat provides and can supplement my pension with my business earnings, while answering a few phone calls a day from my boat. Those convinces will shave seven years off of my working life, seven years I will never get back.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:52 AM   #146
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Having spent the last 3 weeks in the DC/MD area, I can sure see how your boat power requirements here are much different than our own back in CA. We have the heat without the humidity in the delta, but we have cool nights. The SF Bay is always cool it seems.

The humidity levels and frequency of rain would make air conditioning almost a requirement to enjoy the area on a boat for me. Now, I'm sure many here aren't as soft as me and enjoy the waters without AC, but that's not how I'd enjoy it. To each his own...
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:57 AM   #147
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Having spent the last 3 weeks in the DC/MD area, I can sure see how your boat power requirements here are much different than our own back in CA. We have the heat without the humidity in the delta, but we have cool nights. The SF Bay is always cool it seems.

The humidity levels and frequency of rain would make air conditioning almost a requirement to enjoy the area on a boat for me. Now, I'm sure many here aren't as soft as me and enjoy the waters without AC, but that's not how I'd enjoy it. To each his own...
Bingo you are dead on the New Jersey shore is just like the DC/MD area. Without de-humidification and AC you could quickly ruin the interior of your boat and be very uncomfortable while on board.
That's why I'm seriously looking at the 1 ton split HVAC systems instead of the standard marine units that get clogged by debris and require routine cleaning.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:01 AM   #148
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Eric

We both know that you do not have to "rough it" to enjoy life on the water.

I can sit in the pilothouse or the cockpit, or up on the flying bridge of our boat and enjoy the sights and the sounds and the smells of the ocean. I can watch the otter swimming nearby. Perhaps a salmon will jump, making me ponder the circle of life. If I'm lucky a whale will surface nearby.

I prefer to do all this with the conveniences I expect, and some I need. While I'm up having that first cup of coffee, possibly my satellite phone will ring. A customer calling to place an order, or inquiring about a product I sell. You see, I am not a rich man, I still have to make a living. So, I'll take care of my customer, earn some money, then get back to watching the otter play.
I'll add me too....
I'm still a working man but need 24/7 internet access, 24/7 reliable phone communications and actually following the news since I mainly do government work.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:41 AM   #149
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Moonstruck it sounds like your 42 Saber is well equipped. They are beautiful boats in my opinion.
Bill
Thanks for the compliment. We certainly do enjoy the boat. May late wife was alive when we bought this boat. She was doing chemo treatments that made her very sensitive to temperature changes. Thus the large capacity for A/C. We had cruised for about 40 years, and didn't let that stop us.

The boat just turned 10 yrs old, and it was time for a little updating. Very little cruising this year. Most of the year was devoted to maintenance and upgrade installations. I just finished adjusting the new hydraulic hoist for the dinghy this morning. Wish I had installed one years ago.

You have spent much time in the Bahamas. I am going to put up a picture of one of my favorite beaches on the North end of GGC. We anchor off Bakers Bay, and run the dinghy around to snorkle and play on the beach.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:48 AM   #150
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There is a another very important component to the equation. Your desired boating lifestyle (including finances). Then you have to match the systems to it, best as you can.
B is absolutely correct, at least as far as Seaweed is concerned. I'm still working toward having the decadence filled life I wish aboard a 23' miniature trawler.

Everything is a trade-off.

That said, Seaweed is home, and this is not a game to me. She's my home and here I want all the accoutrements that go with it. Having ample power plays a part in my happiness quotient.

I want to not worry about running my refrigerator 24-7.
Not quite there, yet.
Still, I'm closer than I was six years ago, and this boating thing is an evolution.

Each of us takes our systems as far as our budgets and wishes can afford. If you're not happy with what you have, work toward a better solution.

MPPT's are a great solar addition.
If you've got room for a generator and the ability to fuel it, that's another option.
Wind generators are good too.

As for me, the ability to recover from mistakes is critical. Multiple charging sources means if you (or I!) do something dumb, we can recover. That's a key feature that all boats should have.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:52 AM   #151
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On a hook or mooring we run our 5KW Westebeke gen set about two hours a day to top off the batteries. I was tellin' my chief engineer son how it burns .8 of a gallon of diesel per hour. He told me his ship's generators burn 3 TONS of fuel in 24 hours when anchored.
I feel all better now.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:23 PM   #152
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BandB,
Yes campers do get very competitive about their style and travels. They like to travel to all the places that other campers mostly dream about. And shop at REI buying all the brands held in high esteem by the other campers they respect. Trawler men have their "make me popular too" things like Lugger engines and certain boats. They can get boats and engines for 30% less that are 95% as good but they lust for the guru product. But this is at least as well entrenched in the camper world as here.

If I had three times as much money I'd have a different boat and moorage and some equipment (less than you think). Probably a Nordic Tug moored at Anacortes. One of the first things I'd get is a little crane for my dinghy. But realisticly most of us don't know what we'd do w 3 times as much money. My trawler boat would change less than most of my other life ..... Much much less.

Actually I'd keep Willy and take her to a yard known for good modification skills. I'd make the hull 3' longer and the cabin 2' longer. Same engine but w Aqua Drive or perhaps a hydraulic drive. The hyd drive would require 5 more hp but since I'm only loaded 50% that should be fine. I'd replace lots of stuff like our mattress's, helm seat, flooring ect ect. I'd prolly get a gen to use as a get home w DC electric drive. Or go w twin engines. I set myself off I see.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:24 PM   #153
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janice142, I couldn't agree more. You just stated the way I feel. Yes MPPT controllers for solar have really helped the boating industry, in addition wind controllers are great. Just make sure the wind generator is shut off if your going to work on it or serious injuries can occur. I have an AIR-X I have been wanting to try for years it has a Missouri Wind C40 diversion controller.
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:37 AM   #154
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It's not always about money either.

I have a doctor friend who is financially well healed and every year he travels to some third world nation that has tall mountains. Lives in a nylon tent in the snow, sleeps in his cloths in an arctic sleeping bag, and eats freeze dried food heated in a cup of water on an alcohol burner. All for the love of climbing the ice covered rock face of some chunk of stone. And he calls that a fun vacation!!

What we have in common is boating. Where we differ is what boating means to each of us. . . . it's just personal preference!
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:12 AM   #155
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As for me, the ability to recover from mistakes is critical. Multiple charging sources means if you (or I!) do something dumb, we can recover. That's a key feature that all boats should have.
Janice has added an important element. At anchor almost all the time we don't have shore power to run to. With wind, solar, diesel generator and a 27 hp wing engine (75 amps) we have the ability to muddle through if any one item goes down.

As far as roughing it goes, I have lived with the diesel generator down and have had to cut electrical usage. Prefer the normal operation.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:19 PM   #156
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Guys, with the proviso I do not own a boat and I am still doing research at this point.
Part of my background is application of IT to energy management for office buildings and commercial/industrial loads.
So this brings me to my question. Considering the weight of batteries, the cost to replace, the additional power required to move the boat due to the weight, the lack of space... Would it make more sense to have a much smaller battery system designed for short peak loads (e.g. hair dryer or A/C and microwave coming on together) and run a genset continuously? Think of a small efficient genset connected with a standard uninterruptible power supply designed/loaded for 10 minutes of use. (I would think from a redundancy you would want two gensets, but I digress).

Additionally, for those with A/C has anyone looked at ice storage and thermal loading? (for those who do not know, have the a/c generate ice blocks at night when power is cheap and use the ice in place of second stage on a/c when OAT at the highest).

Tim
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:21 PM   #157
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What do you do about Power?

I say run the genset all the time, just make sure you have it loaded. That's what we do, we have all the amenities we have at home . And we like it that way.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:54 PM   #158
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Consider engine heating for hot water tank. Since ours gets very hot and is mixed with cold we can go two days on the hook without using the genny to heat water.
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:16 PM   #159
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Considering the weight of batteries, the cost to replace, the additional power required to move the boat due to the weight, the lack of space... Would it make more sense to have a much smaller battery system designed for short peak loads (e.g. hair dryer or A/C and microwave coming on together) and run a genset continuously? Think of a small efficient genset connected with a standard uninterruptible power supply designed/loaded for 10 minutes of use. (I would think from a redundancy you would want two gensets, but I digress).

Additionally, for those with A/C has anyone looked at ice storage and thermal loading? (for those who do not know, have the a/c generate ice blocks at night when power is cheap and use the ice in place of second stage on a/c when OAT at the highest).

Tim

Would probably need detailed cost comparison betweeon cost of fuel and maintenance on the genset(s) versus cost of batteries, cost of fuel hauling battery weight, etc. Could maybe go either way... and influenced by cost of fuel.

On your own genset, power isn't cheaper at night. I dunno what our own (metered) dock power rates are like; never thought to check whether time of day enters into our bill or not. At transient docks, power is more often a flat daily rate, in our experience.

-Chris
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:34 PM   #160
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If the batteries are properly placed in a displacement hull a little ballast can actually help the ride. I'm not saying there isn't a point where battery weight gets silly. Generators are not that light either so their weight needs to be in the equation in addition to the fuel they burn.
Bill
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