What do you do about Power?

[ancora]

On a hook or mooring we run our 5KW Westebeke gen set about two hours a day to top off the batteries. I was tellin' my chief engineer son how it burns .8 of a gallon of diesel per hour. He told me his ship's generators burn 3 TONS of fuel in 24 hours when anchored.
I feel all better now.

 

[Nomad Willy]

BandB,
Yes campers do get very competitive about their style and travels. They like to travel to all the places that other campers mostly dream about. And shop at REI buying all the brands held in high esteem by the other campers they respect. Trawler men have their "make me popular too" things like Lugger engines and certain boats. They can get boats and engines for 30% less that are 95% as good but they lust for the guru product. But this is at least as well entrenched in the camper world as here.

If I had three times as much money I'd have a different boat and moorage and some equipment (less than you think). Probably a Nordic Tug moored at Anacortes. One of the first things I'd get is a little crane for my dinghy. But realisticly most of us don't know what we'd do w 3 times as much money. My trawler boat would change less than most of my other life ..... Much much less.

Actually I'd keep Willy and take her to a yard known for good modification skills. I'd make the hull 3' longer and the cabin 2' longer. Same engine but w Aqua Drive or perhaps a hydraulic drive. The hyd drive would require 5 more hp but since I'm only loaded 50% that should be fine. I'd replace lots of stuff like our mattress's, helm seat, flooring ect ect. I'd prolly get a gen to use as a get home w DC electric drive. Or go w twin engines. I set myself off I see.

 

[Billylll]

janice142, I couldn't agree more. You just stated the way I feel. Yes MPPT controllers for solar have really helped the boating industry, in addition wind controllers are great. Just make sure the wind generator is shut off if your going to work on it or serious injuries can occur. I have an AIR-X I have been wanting to try for years it has a Missouri Wind C40 diversion controller.
Bill

 

[Edelweiss]

It's not always about money either.

I have a doctor friend who is financially well healed and every year he travels to some third world nation that has tall mountains. Lives in a nylon tent in the snow, sleeps in his cloths in an arctic sleeping bag, and eats freeze dried food heated in a cup of water on an alcohol burner. All for the love of climbing the ice covered rock face of some chunk of stone. And he calls that a fun vacation!!

What we have in common is boating. Where we differ is what boating means to each of us. . . . it's just personal preference!

 

[Bay Pelican]

As for me, the ability to recover from mistakes is critical. Multiple charging sources means if you (or I!) do something dumb, we can recover. That's a key feature that all boats should have.

Janice has added an important element. At anchor almost all the time we don't have shore power to run to. With wind, solar, diesel generator and a 27 hp wing engine (75 amps) we have the ability to muddle through if any one item goes down.

As far as roughing it goes, I have lived with the diesel generator down and have had to cut electrical usage. Prefer the normal operation.

 

[tspear]

Guys, with the proviso I do not own a boat and I am still doing research at this point.
Part of my background is application of IT to energy management for office buildings and commercial/industrial loads.
So this brings me to my question. Considering the weight of batteries, the cost to replace, the additional power required to move the boat due to the weight, the lack of space... Would it make more sense to have a much smaller battery system designed for short peak loads (e.g. hair dryer or A/C and microwave coming on together) and run a genset continuously? Think of a small efficient genset connected with a standard uninterruptible power supply designed/loaded for 10 minutes of use. (I would think from a redundancy you would want two gensets, but I digress).

Additionally, for those with A/C has anyone looked at ice storage and thermal loading? (for those who do not know, have the a/c generate ice blocks at night when power is cheap and use the ice in place of second stage on a/c when OAT at the highest).

Tim

 

[N4712]

I say run the genset all the time, just make sure you have it loaded. That's what we do, we have all the amenities we have at home . And we like it that way.

 

[bayview]

Consider engine heating for hot water tank. Since ours gets very hot and is mixed with cold we can go two days on the hook without using the genny to heat water.

 

[ranger58sb]

Considering the weight of batteries, the cost to replace, the additional power required to move the boat due to the weight, the lack of space... Would it make more sense to have a much smaller battery system designed for short peak loads (e.g. hair dryer or A/C and microwave coming on together) and run a genset continuously? Think of a small efficient genset connected with a standard uninterruptible power supply designed/loaded for 10 minutes of use. (I would think from a redundancy you would want two gensets, but I digress).

Additionally, for those with A/C has anyone looked at ice storage and thermal loading? (for those who do not know, have the a/c generate ice blocks at night when power is cheap and use the ice in place of second stage on a/c when OAT at the highest).

Tim

Would probably need detailed cost comparison betweeon cost of fuel and maintenance on the genset(s) versus cost of batteries, cost of fuel hauling battery weight, etc. Could maybe go either way... and influenced by cost of fuel.

On your own genset, power isn't cheaper at night. I dunno what our own (metered) dock power rates are like; never thought to check whether time of day enters into our bill or not. At transient docks, power is more often a flat daily rate, in our experience.

-Chris

 

[Billylll]

If the batteries are properly placed in a displacement hull a little ballast can actually help the ride. I'm not saying there isn't a point where battery weight gets silly. Generators are not that light either so their weight needs to be in the equation in addition to the fuel they burn.
Bill

 

[BandB]

If the batteries are properly placed in a displacement hull a little ballast can actually help the ride. I'm not saying there isn't a point where battery weight gets silly. Generators are not that light either so their weight needs to be in the equation in addition to the fuel they burn.
Bill

Equipment weight is factored into the design of every well designed boat. Be very careful doing anything that appreciably changes weight and balance. I have known one person who moved all his batteries and it gave his boat an entirely different ride so he had to finally give in and move them back where they were previously.

 

[ranger58sb]

Returning slightly toward the direction of OP's first post... and I think a hesitance to runs a genset for various reasons, including noise...

Our AC units (compressors and their air-handler fans) contribute more to the ambient internal noise level than our genset.

At the dock, that's also compounded slightly by the portable fans we usually keep running in each area.

FWIW.

-Chris

 

[Moonstruck]

Would probably need detailed cost comparison betweeon cost of fuel and maintenance on the genset(s) versus cost of batteries, cost of fuel hauling battery weight, etc. Could maybe go either way... and influenced by cost of fuel.

On your own genset, power isn't cheaper at night. I dunno what our own (metered) dock power rates are like; never thought to check whether time of day enters into our bill or not. At transient docks, power is more often a flat daily rate, in our experience.

-Chris

Chris, if you are filling your batteries back up with generator power rather than solar, wind, or shore power; I look at it a little differently. As long as your battery bank is large enough to comfortably carry the load that is big enough. Since you have to fill them with generator power you will just run the generator a little more often, but not necessarily longer. Batteries are expensive and a headache. The fewer the better.

 

[Billylll]

Equipment weight is factored into the design of every well designed boat. Be very careful doing anything that appreciably changes weight and balance. I have known one person who moved all his batteries and it gave his boat an entirely different ride so he had to finally give in and move them back where they were previously.

That's why I'm leaving the current starting batteries where they are and starting with a relatively small house bank just forward of the engines it will be 4 to 6 105AH DEKA Unigy1 batteries.
Another point many boats do not come with a generator as standard equipment so placement is as important with them as a house bank.
Bill

 

[ranger58sb]

Chris, if you are filling your batteries back up with generator power rather than solar, wind, or shore power; I look at it a little differently. As long as your battery bank is large enough to comfortably carry the load that is big enough. Since you have to fill them with generator power you will just run the generator a little more often, but not necessarily longer. Batteries are expensive and a headache. The fewer the better.

I shoot for that Goldilocks "just right" battery solution

Mostly, though, I was simply adding fodder for tspear to ruminate on.

-Chris

 

[tspear]

I shoot for that Goldilocks "just right" battery solution

Mostly, though, I was simply adding fodder for tspear to ruminate on.

-Chris

A friend has an early 70s ~40ft Chris Craft he uses for weekend get aways. He has insulated and isolated the generators, HVAC and even the Refrig to the point you cannot hear them run. All HVAC vents are double size of standard to minimize flow noise, compressor and generators are all on isolator mounts....
But he still has a large house battery set. As I was reading the thread I started to think more and more that this is just tradition and maybe worth rethinking.

Tim