Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-20-2017, 03:08 PM   #1
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,350
Westerbeke 8.0 KW engine

My Westerbeke wouldn't start at the end of last season after sitting unused for 6+ weeks. Got it winterized and started working on it this season to analyze the problem. Changed fuel filters and bled system, checked glow plugs, pulled injection pump and injectors and sent to rebuild shop. 2 injectors were bad so I thought I had located the problem but no joy. It still wouldn't fire up, so I then purchased a kit to check compression, I didn't think this was a problem because it didn't have excessive blow by. #1 510 psi #2 215 psi & #3 180 psi, I then figured the head gasket was blown between #2 & #3, could hear air hissing during cranking that added to this feeling. Pulled the head and no sign at all of gasket failure, I then removed the generator and hauled home to my sons shop because he has all of my tools now. Tore it down yesterday and found that everything looks very good inside, the bearing inserts look new, cylinders aren't scored, pistons still have machine marks on the skirts. The pistons have 3 compression rings and 1 oil control ring. The problem was all the compression rings were stuck in the grooves on the 2 with low compression and only the top ring on the other piston expanded out of its groove. A little more information #1 had a little rust in the cylinder when the head was removed so at some point it ingested water possibly during cranking.
Now the question for those still reading what are you ideas on the cause of the stuck rings?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 03:55 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Wherever the boat is
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Silver Quarter
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 456
your gauge is toast?

510psi ~ 35:1 compression.
__________________

kev_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 06:05 PM   #3
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
your gauge is toast?



510psi ~ 35:1 compression.


Possible, new gauge but of unknown quality if came with the kit. But there is no doubt about the problem only what caused it.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 06:16 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Wherever the boat is
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Silver Quarter
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 456
If that wasn't a typo your gauge is not possibly toast, definitely toast. Your generator would be in the range of 20:1 compression. You're already making assumptions based on its readings. You've no idea if those rings were in fact leaking compression during run time.
kev_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 06:28 PM   #5
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,907
Except for the findings on breakdown and (assuming the gauge was reading wrong constantly) the vastly differential readings.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #6
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Except for the findings on breakdown and (assuming the gauge was reading wrong constantly) the vastly differential readings.


My thoughts exactly, I had to use the tools available and the difference between cylinders was key to pulling the head and then the pistons. The rings seized in the grooves was proof to me I had found the problem. I've rebuilt a lot of diesel and a few gas engines over the years so I'am not a rookie at analyzing a problem. The initial question about the cause was my reason for the post. I think I know what caused it but was looking for other opinions.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 11:53 AM   #7
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,213
Running it unloaded? Never changing the oil? Overheating? Solar eclipse?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 12:33 PM   #8
Guru
 
Mule's Avatar
 
City: Fort Pierce
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florita Ann
Vessel Model: 1982 Present
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,935
Head is off..pour as much marvel mystery oil into the cylinders as you can and let it marinate. See my post on alternate suppliers for Mitsubishi parts. Weaver Tractor in Pennsylvania may have a $70 Mitsubishi head gasket instead of a repackaged one from Westerbeke for $211. Good luck.
Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 12:56 PM   #9
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,350
Thanks Mule I did save that information when I read your thread. I have sources for parts much more reasonable than Westerbeke.
Xsbank the oil and filter since I've owned it has always been changed between 90 to 100 hours. Never ran with no load but I believe that light loading may of been a contributing factor, the PO always ran it whenever he left the slip and I doubt he had much of a load on it. Getting it out was a genuine pain in the a$$, that was one reason I didn't replace with a new 5.5 to 6.5 kw unit. The head has to be replaced once it's back in place & I didn't want to remove the head on a brand new unit because of warranty concerns. Later models of my boat have a hatch over the gen that makes maintenance and replacement much simpler.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 01:21 PM   #10
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,311
Rings can stick from moisture or from soot, soot from low load running. Can soften it up with outboard two stroke ring free or other solvent. Or pop pistons out and loosen by hand with solvent. Note that some westy 8's have four rings and the mitsu specs show three rings. So unless you want to buy rings from westy, loosen up and reuse the old ones.
Ski in NC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 03:18 PM   #11
Veteran Member
 
GGroves's Avatar
 
City: Cruising Great Lakes
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Vingilot II
Vessel Model: 2004 DeFever 45 RPH
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 45
I had the same problem with a smaller 5.5 kW gen set on my former sailboat. It sat for a month and then would not start. Sprayed some oil in air intake and after a few cranks it started up, albeit a bit rough. After running for a min or so, smoothed out. Later, in talking to Diesel engine guy, he said that sometimes diesel motors that are not run for a while, develop a layer of fine rust on pistons, rings and valves. All combined to thwart compression, so no start. If I know I won't be using the motor for a while, I give the intakes a brief squirt of engine fog oil to coat the internals. good luck.
GGroves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 04:18 PM   #12
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,350
Westerbeke 8.0 KW engine

During the effort to find the problem I pulled the glow plugs and gave each cylinder a squirt of oil. I rolled it over a couple of times and then left it sit for a day. This didn't help so I repeated the process and still no help getting it to fire up. I should also mention that I cleaned all the battery connections and had the starter rebuilt at the beginning of the problem. After changing all the fuel filters, checking flow and bleeding the system, this was the 1st thing I did to make sure it was spinning over fast enough.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 06:10 AM   #13
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,650
".pour as much marvel mystery oil into the cylinders as you can and let it marinate."

A friend at a large company had MM oil analyzed .

Its #1 diesel , with coloring and oil of wintergreen to change the smell.

Save your money . ATF is a better , and is PB Blaster , but the stuff for removing carbon from outboards is probably the best.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×