Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-04-2007, 06:09 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
marinetrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 301
Watermakers

I've got a customer thats purchasing a Hatteras LRC and wants to install a new watermaker on her.* I'm not up to speed on watermakers myself.* Can anyone offer a good, reliable brand?

MT*
__________________
Advertisement

marinetrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 01:20 PM   #2
KMA
Senior Member
 
City: Merritt Island
Country: U.S.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 471
Watermakers

We've a Village Marine STW-400 (16.6 GPH) we installed earlier this year, and love it. Easy to operate and maintain, and the factory is easy to access for questions. They offer tremendous deals at boat shows (we got 25% off list), so keep your eyes peeled.

Corporate Sales Office - Gardena, California
2000 W. 135th Street, Gardena, CA 90249
(310) 516-9911 (800) 421-4503 (310) 538-3048 Fax
Email: sales@villagemarine.com
__________________

KMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 04:58 PM   #3
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Watermakers

A water maker may be in the future if we head south.* The Eagle had a H2O water maker but we did not use, it need rebuilding so I took it out and dismantled it.* Ok, so I tore it a part.* (-;* There is really not that much to them, pre filter, electric motor, high pressure pump, pressure adjustments, reverse osmosis filters, some tubing/hoses and the little secret electronic that test the conductivity of the filtered water.* The whole secret is the right water pressure and conductivity of the filter water.

*
The bases is fresh water does not conduct electricity and salt/raw water does. *So the pressure is too high forcing the water through not removing all the salt, the water conduct electricity to an alarm, so the pressure is back off until the water is fresh and does not conduit electricity.* Not all that complicated for the money they want for them.* If you want more gallons per day then added osmosis filter and turn up the pressure until the alarm goes off then back down the pressure.* Oh, I do not understand why the price increase so much to increase the gallons/day as its just another osmosis filter for a couple hundred bucks

*
Furthermore I would not buy a water maker for marine but a domestic one.* Many people/farms through out the grain belt have water makers for the house to filter out the minerals, which are a lot cheaper than marine for the same thing. **I would say I live on a farm rather than say I own a boat. $$$$$$.

*
So anyway, I will rebuild/build my own, buy a domestic and/or find a refurbish one as people with money are always up grading/increasing the gallons/hour.** On thing for sure you really do not need a fancy box with whistle and bells. To me the brand name just like a boat is not that important as you are paying extra for the name.*

*
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 08:31 AM   #4
Jon
Senior Member
 
Jon's Avatar
 
City: spragge
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Isle of Skye
Vessel Model: Bruckmann trawler
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 132
RE: Watermakers

Any more updates or recommendations on water makers?
We are getting the planning started for our next trip south and I indulged my wife on the last trip with almost unlimited supplies of fresh water and set ridiculously high standards for the future..... So high that she's now insisting that dishes have to be rinsed in fresh water, and clothing is somehow "cleaner" if washed in fresh.
I'm looking for info on the smaller brands as I understand once you start using one, it's best if it is run frequently.
Jon
Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 08:34 AM   #5
Guru
 
Capn Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 899
RE: Watermakers

Jon, We used the Village Marine Little Wonder 12 volt model for over ten years and tens of thousands of miles of cruising. It worked flawlessly and needed only regular scheduled maintenance. Get the system with the flush kit and booster pump. Chuck
Capn Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 09:40 AM   #6
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,488
RE: Watermakers

Another vote for the Village Marine unit.* Ours is the 600 gpd unit.* The only problem we had was a bad batch of pickling cartridges, where the factory used double the amount of chemical they should have and it destroyed some of the seals.* VM replaced them (reluctantly) for free.

When I researched this, I found the VM manufactured components for competitors and suppled many military units - always a good sign.* They are now owed by Parker/Racor which won't make them any cheaper but will mean parts should always be available.*

I'd be prepared to plumb in additional filtering for the raw water before it reaches their pre-filter.* This isn't such a big issue in your part of the world, but we have so much algae in the NW, pre-pre-filtering is essential.* We use a plankton filter (50 microns), then a string filter (20 microns) before it reaches the 5 micron pre-filter.* Without those, our pre-filters lasted only about 5 hours, and while I could blast them clean with a pressure washer, they would only last about 3 hours more before clogging again.*

Finally, don't buy the pre-filters or charcoal filters from VM.* www.filters.com is a lot cheaper.
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 10:28 AM   #7
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Watermakers

I have heard good things about Spectra although no experience here....
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 11:27 AM   #8
Jon
Senior Member
 
Jon's Avatar
 
City: spragge
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Isle of Skye
Vessel Model: Bruckmann trawler
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 132
RE: Watermakers

Cap'n Chuck,
Is your's the component model or the small package unit? Did you plumb to an existing intake?
Delfin
Heading to the Bahamas so will truly look at pre-pre filters.
Jon
Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:05 PM   #9
Guru
 
Shoalwaters's Avatar
 
City: Rodney Bay Lagoon
Country: St. Lucia, West Indies
Vessel Name: "Dragon Lady"
Vessel Model: DeFever 41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
RE: Watermakers

I've had Village Marine and Watermakers desalinators; both work well and the service is excellent. The following suggestions may be of use:

The component models often make for a better installation, as the various bits can be located where space and logic dictate. There is seldom space in the engine room for a skid mounted unit without obstructing access to something important.

No automatic sampling - less to go wrong. Have a sample valve and taste the product water. If it tastes good, divert it to your tanks, if it's still salty, run the system some more.

15 to 20 gal/hr is a useful size. The hi-pressure and lift pumps use a fair amount of power, so go with 110v/200v assuming you have a generator.

When the system is full of sea water it should be run every few days to keep it fresh. Alternatively flush with fresh water after use. Insist on a charcoal filter. It removes chlorine from the water in your tanks which would otherwise destroy the membrane.

Pumps and motors live much longer if they are run every couple of weeks. Fit an overboard diverter valve to the lift pump so it can be run without pushing salt water into the rest of the system. The fresh water flush permits the hi-pressure pump and membrane to be "exercised" without getting them salty. You also make water pure enough for topping up batteries that way.

The filters should have clear bowls so you can see the build-up of crud on the elements. A plastic bowl-wrench is a must. Mount the filters high enough that a catch-pan can be slid underneath. Things get nasty in there and you don't want stinky seawater spilling all over the engine room floor.
Shoalwaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:46 PM   #10
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
RE: Watermakers

I don't know if it is the same in the US as here in Aus but out here there a quite a few local makers of RO systems that come in a lot cheaper than the propriety brands.
I had a local guy knok my unit up for 8k. That is s/s HP pump , 120 lt/hr (30 gal) 2 x 48" membranes very manual but works a treat.
The same unit with a brass pump and 1 membrane (15 gal/hr) works out at $5500.00 add $60.00 for a salinometer and that is a good value system.
The local guys on the marina usually know where or who locally supplies such items.

Benn
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 12:04 PM   #11
Guru
 
Capn Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 899
RE: Watermakers

Quote:
Jon wrote:

Cap'n Chuck,
Is your's the component model or the small package unit? Did you plumb to an existing intake?
Delfin
Heading to the Bahamas so will truly look at pre-pre filters.
Jon
Jon, Ours was the small package unit, which is pretty much plug and play. If I had to do it over, I would get the seperate components, they just make working on the unit easier. It might have just been my location, under the quarter berth. The watermaker had its own water intake with its own pre-filter, which is a must, as is the small booster pump. I see no reason why a shared intake would be a problem.* Chuck

*
Capn Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #12
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,488
RE: Watermakers

Jon, they don't recommend plumbing to a common intake, but a lot of people do (like me).* Just be aware that the low pressure pump is sucking through the filters, so it doesn't take much pressure drop to trigger a low pressure cut out on most units.* Mine is plumbed to the genset raw water lift muffler, and rarely runs when I am making water underway, so I don't have a problem.
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 07:07 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
RE: Watermakers

In*water makers, think GPH (gallons per hour) instead of*GPD (gallons per day).* It keeps your run time as short as possible.

We had an Aqua Marine 24 GPH modular unit and we only pickled it once in 7 years and it still gave out it's rated output*within acceptable*TDS limits.* We now have a Village Marine (3 years) which has a better constructed pump.* We like the simple No-Frills unit.* When we need to rinse the membrane we have to do it manually but we don't have to worry about sensors, solenoids and component failures.

If you are going to buy a Village Marine modular unit, pay the extra dollars and get a get a standard 40" pressure vessel.* Village Marine sells their proprietary pressure vessels shorter (38") than the industry standard of 40".* If and when you need to replace the membrane you have to buy one of theirs.* They are about ~$520.00.* You can buy a Dow Filmtec 40' membrane for less than $200.00.

Spectra Watermakers are good*if you are a 12 volt boat without a generator.* You can make water underway and directly off the batteries.* The Clark pump is one of the most efficient out there.* If you need to repair the pump though it has be sent back to Spectra.** We like AC water makers.* When we run the generator, we charge batteries, make water and run the water maker.* We find that at less than 2 hours per day it takes care of all our*needs.* We can maker water off the inverter if we want to but what we take out (amps) has to be put back.

Someone said they would buy a house hold unit to save money.* It won't work!* Membranes are constructed for different types of water and run at different pressures.*

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Huatulco, Oaxaca, MX
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 08:46 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,363
RE: Watermakers

Larry

Good points on operating a water maker on AC vs DC during one's morniing or evening*genset ritual. I was talking to several suppliers at the latest Seattle boat show and they agreed with the AC concept of using your genset about 2 hours per day to keep boats like ours with sufficient water. For the serious cruisers like you, another option for AC needs*is the cruise generator driven off the engine.

It is also amazing how propane is disappearing with induction cook tops and convection microwaves now operating off inverters only. We replaced our fancy gas range at home with an induction unit and electric oven - no looking back.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:14 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
DCBD's Avatar
 
City: Sidney BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Our Island
Vessel Model: KK Manatee
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 202
RE: Watermakers

http://www.wolfwatermakers.com/

I don't have one but I have heard good things about this company.
DCBD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:17 AM   #16
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Watermakers

Not much to a water maker.* I took our H2O water maker apart.* The are comprised of pre filters, high pressure pump with PSI adjustment, electric motor, membranes, a saline tester and a bunch of tubing.* The trick is in the membrane and setting the PSI correctly to which forces the water through the membrane.* You can buy all the components separately.* The saline tester is an electronic devise that the fresh water passes through it the water is to salty it will conduct a current light up a light, so the PSI has to be back off.** If I was going to buy a water maker I would buy a used refurbished one for like 50% of new. The Village water maker is made in Ballard under the Ballard bridge.


*
I think domestic and marine use the same membrane its the PSI that is the variable?* **We have relative that live on farms through out the mid west and a large % have water makers that look basically like a marine water makers but a lot cheaper and many have a store space for the water.* Anyway, you might want to look into it before spending 7 to 10 grand.***

I want water maker*sized for *produced the amount of water in the length of time we will be running the gen set per day.* The GPH is dependant on the membrane size so you can increase the capacity.* When wee need a water maker again I will probable just rebuild/modify what I have left of the H20.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:57 AM   #17
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
Watermakers

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:

*
Not much to a water maker...............................I think domestic and marine use the same membrane its the PSI that is the variable?*
Phil:* You are absolutely right about there not being much to a water maker.* We have a 5 and a 20 micron pre filter,*a booster pump, a hi-pressure pump,* a membrane and pressure vessel, a pressure gauge and*2 valves (plus a lot of hoses).* If you are handy, you can make one for about $2,000 in off the shelf parts.* You can also spend*$4,000 for a AC-20 GPH*complete or up to*$10,000 for the same capacity*based on how simple or how complicated you want to make it**
There is a big difference in membranes based on application.* They are basically constructed the same way but one for domestic water will not remove the 3.5% sodium chloride that sea water has and are not constructed to operate at 800 to 900 psi.

http://www.appliedmembranes.com/filmmem.htm

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Huatulco, Oaxaca, MX


-- Edited by Larry M on Wednesday 2nd of February 2011 12:58:48 PM
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 06:12 PM   #18
Jon
Senior Member
 
Jon's Avatar
 
City: spragge
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Isle of Skye
Vessel Model: Bruckmann trawler
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 132
RE: Watermakers

Larry M.
Just found the download manual for the Spectra and it looked very interesting.
Does any one have comments on the Spectra?
I just talked to the Village Marine guy in California, who was helpful but pushed their membranes. He said his pump was not fan cooled ( Spectra looks to be),rated for 40C which would be dodgy in my engine room. I'll ask him about a 40 inch housing.
Jon
Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 07:37 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
RE: Watermakers

Quote:
Jon wrote:

Larry M.
Just found the download manual for the Spectra and it looked very interesting.
Does any one have comments on the Spectra?
I just talked to the Village Marine guy in California, who was helpful but pushed their membranes. He said his pump was not fan cooled ( Spectra looks to be),rated for 40C which would be dodgy in my engine room. I'll ask him about a 40 inch housing.
Jon
Jon:* If you want to go with a 12 VDC system go with a Spectra.* They are the most efficient but pricey 12 systems made.* We cruise a lot with sailboats and of all the 12 VDC units that have been installed in the last few years, they are Spectra, if that tells you anything.

If you want an AC unit there are many choices that will equally perform as well as a Village Marine.*

If you talk to Village Marine, ask them about the operating temperature for the pump and motor.* I believe**they are rated for under 130 degrees F (54C).* It is not uncommon for an AC motor and pump to run at 120F or ~50C continuously.* A good percentage if not the majority of water maker installations are installed in*engine rooms.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 05:22 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
marinetrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 301
RE: Watermakers

any idea of comparative costs of both the Spectra and VM?
__________________

marinetrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sea Recovery Watermakers tlaw7 Other Trawler Systems 5 03-25-2012 05:16 PM
Watermakers Tidahapah Other Trawler Systems 23 06-11-2011 12:36 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012