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Old 03-20-2013, 10:40 AM   #1
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Water hose change on ADC (Lehman) 136N

I have approximately 10 water hoses I'd like to change plus oil cooler and transmission cooler on my American Diesel Corp 136N.

A mechanic said "maybe 30-40 hours", which I regarded as bogus, hair-brained, or attempted exaggeration. I could do that time using no tools and just my stubby fingers.

I think the procedure is generally
1. Shut off raw water intake.
2. Drain coolant.
3. Remove hoses, coolers, and heat exchanger
4. Ream out heat exchanger, maybe (?) also with some muratic acid.
5. Put all back on using new hoses and clamps.
6. Also add new belt and replace impeller for water pump.
7. Refill coolant. Open RWater sea cock.

I'm a slow careful worker. Some say nervous and paranoid. I check everything 3 times. I won't do this work for at least a month. So I am asking all wizards now.

Can anyone tell me what I am missing as I flesh out the procedure? (The description above is top-of-head, so I'd appreciate no vigorous taunting &#128527


Thanks
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:59 AM   #2
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Greetings,
Mr. B. Sounds like you've got it pretty well covered but 30-40 hrs??? I think even with cleaning/sanding/painting the hose nipples,doing an engine flush (both raw & fresh water sides) and a bit of a de-grease you're not talking much more than 8 EASY hours. A max. of 6-8 hoses unless I'm totally miss-remembering.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:21 AM   #3
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Pretty much my plan too, Ben. We can work on this project together starting in a few weeks. I just need to find a source for the hoses. Some of mine don't really look OEM ;-)

About the only thing I wonder about is that I drain and fill my heat exchanger every season and only use about 2 gallons of coolant, however, the manual says there is over five gallons in the entire cooling circuit. That says to me there is 3+ gallons in the engine's water jackets. I would like to do a 100% change this season, but don't know how to drain the engine block.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:44 AM   #4
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30-40 hours does sound crazy and I agree with Firefly that 8 hours should do it.
But in the mechanics defense, who is going to track down the parts? Hoses, gaskets, O-rings, belts, impellers. Who is going to track down the missing impeller vanes (if any)? Who is going to dispose of the AF? Who is going to find the block drains and the catch buckets for them.
You get the idea. If you asked for a firm quote, he may be taking all these things, and many more, into account.
I do all my own work (boats & cars) but friends that don't, and seem to have the best luck; find a mechanic they and others trust, tell him fully what they want done, ask if they are to get the parts, ask to be called if anything crazy is found, and let him do it without standing over him.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:03 PM   #5
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Greetings,
Mr.Tom. If you've got a Lehman 120 the block drain-cock should be port side just above and forward of the oil pressure sending switch.



In this image, directly below the second - in "ECON-O-POWER.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:58 PM   #6
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RT - Tom has a Perkins. I've drained my system to install the elbow. Know the plug well.

The mechanic gave me a off the cuff response, but this was after having him aboard and nosing around. No quote. No breakdown of time.

I asked him about the 40 hours - yes he did specifically say "30 to 40 hours" which floored me - he responded he'd rather quote high and deliver low. He mentioned water pump replacement sooner rather than later, but still.

Though others have recommended this guy, he was a little cavalier for a guy with experience on my simple 136 hp engine.

Pipes is pipes, but there are nuances when fiddling with the diesel that I continue to learn. In this case, nuances with the mechanics too.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:08 PM   #7
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So one pic is my engine model in the photo studio, the other is when I replaced the elbow - quite a mess. So I'll make a mess again when time for hoses.

Tom- a few places have hose kits, not sure if any of yours are custom from your PO, but seems unusual if so. Good to have two sets of eyes when we do this.

Do you know if there will be any diesel lectures at the boat show? Would be worth seeing and hounding the expert.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:45 PM   #8
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Another thing to check. Do you have a water cooled stuffing box? If so, you need to cap that also.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:29 PM   #9
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I'm finishing injectors, motor alignment and valve adjust tomorrow on one engine and starting the cooling system immediately thereafter on the other. Heat exchanger, oil cooler, transmission cooler, impeller, thermostat and hoses, all sourced from American Diesel.
I'm changing the fuel pump gasket while everything else is off since it is leaking a bit. I'll let you know if any surprises show up or if anything beyond what you have posted is involved.
Last winter I had a mechanic do the same cooling system make-over on the other engine and he charged 15 hours for it. His time included the oil and AF disposal and having oil and transmission hoses fabricated, and replacing that fuel pump gasket also.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #10
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Way high on time. Just depends if you trust him to come in "under" that thought, and what is he charging time for. Driving to and from several parts houses isn't included around here, but might be in your area.

A couple of other ideas... you might want to hang an extra spare belt on before installing the active ones. That way you don't have to remove the coolant hose to replace one if it breaks. Also, American Diesel (a great place to get all your parts) has an expanding plug to seal that unused cooling water port on the FW pump. It's much stronger and more reliable than the rubber cap that's usually on there. I installed it, then put the cap back on anyway. Belt and suspenders you know...
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:36 PM   #11
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Ben
Finished the hose and exchanger replacement yesterday, pretty straight-forward. The slowest individual step was cleaning the tube and expansion tank connections. I was unable to remove the fittings from the oil cooler even with a long breaker bar so I just replaced them. Fittings on mine are British Parallel Pipe and British Taper.
I'm not familiar with the 136N, but the 120 and the 135 have different fresh-water hose connections from the intake-exhaust manifold to the water pump. The 135 would probably require removal of either the manifold or the water pump to replace a 3" long 1 1/2" diameter connector hose from the manifold, whereas the 120 is just a long formed hose.
Even if you replace the water pump the time should be way less, unless there are some of the strange things that POs do that have to be corrected, or unexpected things like cross-threaded fittings or fasteners.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I have approximately 10 water hoses I'd like to change plus oil cooler and transmission cooler on my American Diesel Corp 136N.

A mechanic said "maybe 30-40 hours", which I regarded as bogus, hair-brained, or attempted exaggeration. I could do that time using no tools and just my stubby fingers................
Why not get quotes from a couple other mechanics? That way you'll know if the first quote was out of line.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Why not get quotes from a couple other mechanics? That way you'll know if the first quote was out of line.
Thanks Ron,

It goes deeper than that. It is a struggle of my courage against my fears. Of my initiative against my inertia. Of my temerity against my arrogance.

It is the pebble I must snatch from the hand of the master.


No, now it's a matter of pride. The mechanic has laid down the gauntlet, and it is my solemn duty as a man to beat it. And brag about it.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:03 PM   #14
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All -

Thanks for all the excellent advice.

Once I'm splashed next week and back in slip, I'm doing this. I have the hoses, just need to order the oil and tranny coolers. Will ream out the heat exchanger and evaluate the water pump. The cover to the impeller looks a little rough, which is probably why the mechanic mentioned it. Maybe I'll spend $17 on a new cover and impeller. That will set me back.

There's things I need to know how to do and do them once in a safe US slip if I would like to be confident about running the boat around the Bahamas as I'd like to eventually do. No doubt I'd get "hosed" there if I needed help on little jobs.

I just fixed my interior cabin wood for about ~$80 after getting an $1800 quote. Just took my time and muddled through it. Mostly labor. A few salty words.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:00 PM   #15
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I called Tran Atlantic Diesel and Perkins only supplies the big in and out exchanger hoses. Anything else I need I will need to hunt for at the Napa in Bayboro. *sigh* Well, the bright side is that it will be a far-site cheaper than OEM hoses.

Let me know when You want to start this, Ben. I'll be starting on engine work the second weekend in April. Love to help you with you confidence.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:26 PM   #16
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Ben,

The last few times I replaced the hoses on my Perkins 6-354T I brought the old hoses to NAPA (at their suggestion) and dropped them off. The next day they had a complete set ready for me. Some had to be trimmed to length. Worked for me.

Rob
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