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Old 05-02-2016, 08:33 AM   #1
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VW Diesels for marine

Something is going to happen concerning the VW Diesel cheating scandal. There is credible information talking about buy backs and wrecking out. The 09's up to 13-14 models do not have room under the hood for the mods necessary and with the pollution controls on full time as designed the performance is not acceptable to the owners. They are so dirty for on the road that even India will not allow m in for resale. Word on the street is that VW will have to buy back +- 300,000 cars and wreck em out.

I sure you see where I am going with this. I cannot but help but wonder about refit with marinization for marine use. These engines could likely become available VERY, VERY cheap. They are 4 cylinder @ around 130 hp. I have owned 4, currently have an '06. Makes me want to go hummmmmm.
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:40 AM   #2
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Wouldn't be surprised to see them end up in some 3rd world country without emissions regulations.

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Old 05-02-2016, 09:06 AM   #3
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Is VW going to be buying back cars?
Sometimes the easiest thing is to send disasters like this to the scrap yard, write this off as a business expense, which of course is a waste of a good car.

Entire 90% finished homes in neighborhood developments were bulldozed when housing market crashed. Rather than just hand over property the prefered way to deal with the problem was destruction.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:10 AM   #4
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They are great engines and there are marinization kits available.
I have a 99.5 Jetta TDI w/170+ K miles and just got 51+ mpg on a 4300 mile road trip.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:04 AM   #5
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So Mule .....
You would buy an engine because it's cheap and pump out 40 times the usual pollution as others just so you can save a few bucks?

I know what a green person is ...... you must be black.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:09 AM   #6
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So Mule .....
You would buy an engine because it's cheap and pump out 40 times the usual pollution as others just so you can save a few bucks?

I know what a green person is ...... you must be black.
Marine diesels have very lax controls of NOx, these vw car engines are MUCH cleaner than any marine engine sold now.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #7
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Given that a typical rec boat seems to operate 100-150 hrs/year, I doubt a few "off-spec" VW diesels in marine service will yank the ice flow from under a polar bear.

Wonder how the emissions compare to the venerable Lehman?
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:14 AM   #8
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Marine diesels have very lax controls of NOx, these vw car engines are MUCH cleaner than any marine engine sold now.
Ski..sorry about missing you in Wilmington...

Plus...don't let facts spoil a good TF challenge.....
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:26 AM   #9
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These are great engines, and putting them in boats would be a fine use. But I bet that part of the deal will be that VW has to destroy the engines. Sad.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:33 AM   #10
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We've got one of those VW Golf TDi's. Nice peppy little car with the 6-speed. We are not a bit pleased with the cheating or the likely fix.

On the other hand, you wouldn't wish to see what we saw when the 1984 Perkins 6.354s were started in 40deg weather!

We work to be 'green' however and wherever possible. However, I'd bet the environment would be better off over all if the offending VWs were driven to their natural demises. Pollution was caused during their construction and shipping, pollution will be caused in their demise however and whenever it comes. Premature pollution will be caused during the construction and shipping of the replacement cars.

It's also important to consider/understand (which I certainly do not!) what teeeny portion of the vast pollution humans cause is/would be contributed to by the cheating VWs. True even if you were to consider only diesel-powered transportation vehicles.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:37 AM   #11
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Since VW has a deal with Mercury to sell marinized TDI engines, I don't think that VW can sell the polluting auto engines directly for marine conversions. As noted above, the settlement may require scrapping them. But some will no doubt make it to the black market where anything goes.


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Old 05-02-2016, 11:39 AM   #12
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Wouldn't be surprised to see them end up in some 3rd world country without emissions regulations.

Ted
I think that's the likely outcome.......VW is global and there are plenty of markets these can be re-sold in.

I have a diesel Beetle convertible and am watching this closely. Already got the first $1K bribe. Rumor has it there's another $5K on the horizon and a Buyback option.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:48 AM   #13
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We've got one of those VW Golf TDi's. Nice peppy little car with the 6-speed. We are not a bit pleased with the cheating or the likely fix.

On the other hand, you wouldn't wish to see what we saw when the 1984 Perkins 6.354s were started in 40deg weather!

We work to be 'green' however and wherever possible. However, I'd bet the environment would be better off over all if the offending VWs were driven to their natural demises. Pollution was caused during their construction and shipping, pollution will be caused in their demise however and whenever it comes. Premature pollution will be caused during the construction and shipping of the replacement cars.

It's also important to consider/understand (which I certainly do not!) what teeeny portion of the vast pollution humans cause is/would be contributed to by the cheating VWs. True even if you were to consider only diesel-powered transportation vehicles.
Well put. Of the various resolutions being kicked around, I fear the one settled on will result in a significant net increase in overall environmental damage.

I agree that the best option would be some financial punishment on VW to discourage future cheating, some compensation to the owners for their loss of value... and then let the cars run their natural lives.

By the time this whole thing is litigated to its completion, probably only 10% of the fleet will still be in service.

Typical American legal insanity mixed with classic German hard-headedness. Not going to sort itself quickly.

And WTF were those idiots thinking with this cheat????!!!! Others have tried and got busted in the prior decades. Nothing new to try and get caught.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:01 PM   #14
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By the time this whole thing is litigated to its completion, probably only 10% of the fleet will still be in service.

Typical American legal insanity mixed with classic German hard-headedness. Not going to sort itself quickly.

And WTF were those idiots thinking with this cheat????!!!! Others have tried and got busted in the prior decades. Nothing new to try and get caught.
This is/was typical corporate behavior for when an unreasonably demanding boss tells employees to accomplish something that can't be technically done. If you spent 20+ years working for a large organization, it would be surprising if you had not seen similar behaviors.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:36 PM   #15
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Marine diesels have very lax controls of NOx, these vw car engines are MUCH cleaner than any marine engine sold now.
Well if that's the case it would be stupid to go to all the trouble of taking them out of cars and putting them in boats. But there would be far fewer of them then. Besides the guys here don't like high rpm's.

Another thought is that the EPA dropped the ball checking these engines out so VW should be required to stop selling them but those already sold should be grandfathered w/o penalty .. IMO.

And I agree they are great engines. I reciently bought a Jetta and passed on the diesel option. Didn't even consider it actually. Seen many on the road w black butts and the gas Jetta I bought has an MPG rating of 36 hwy. Why would anyone need better MPG that that? But unlike our boats how long they last is or may be a factor.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:45 PM   #16
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This is/was typical corporate behavior for when an unreasonably demanding boss tells employees to accomplish something that can't be technically done. If you spent 20+ years working for a large organization, it would be surprising if you had not seen similar behaviors.
Unfortunately this is a fairly common behavior.
As an engineer I have been asked in the past to falsify data to back up a manager's "promise".
I refused.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:57 PM   #17
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Wasn't the VW cover up that the engines falsified "checked data" at emissions test agencies by software lying to the agency tester? Not that being checked was a "dropped" issue?

If so, grandfathering should be out of the question and all owners compensated...even if it means banning g VW from the US for a period. We need to start letting people know laws actually mean something. Making a mistake or pushing a limit is one thing...designing software to lie to the government is tantamount to treason when the vast majority of the money leaves the country.

Or are all engines tested right from the factory and installed.....the old fashion way?
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:09 PM   #18
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Wasn't the VW cover up that the engines falsified "checked data" at emissions test agencies by software lying to the agency tester? Not that being checked was a "dropped" issue?

Yes, the Cheat parameters were triggered by the testing process. This was known as far back as 1999 when Bosch called out VW on the issue. Arrogance at the highest levels caused the problem. I think the estimate is $30 billion to fix this fiasco... VW can afford this, but it's a pretty hard slap on the wrist.

Ironically, $300 per car in additional hardware (Urea injection) could have avoided all this. It's almost impossible to retrofit at this point. EPA has yet to approve a "Fix".
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:14 PM   #19
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Unfortunately this is a fairly common behavior.
As an engineer I have been asked in the past to falsify data to back up a manager's "promise".
I refused.
Yep, when I was an engr in industry, it happened a few times. I too refused and let the dust settle as it may. Part of the reason was that I knew I sucked at BS'ing. But had professional pride, too. Came out of all situations without ill effect on career.

I just can't understand what was going on inside those VW engr offices. Must be some big cultural differences between there and the US. Headscratcher...
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:25 PM   #20
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I just can't understand what was going on inside those VW engr offices. Must be some big cultural differences between there and the US. Headscratcher...
Piech was a tyrant. If the worker bees didn't make this happen they were out of a job.
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