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Old 10-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #121
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I believe boatdiesels' Archives Search will cost $25
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:53 PM   #122
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Seriously now, what's better, an engine that lasts 40 years and has to be taken out of service because parts aren't available or one that blows up after twenty years and has to be replaced?
I agree with you completely on that. No question, in my opinion. that the engine with the proven long life is the better way to go for the maximum return on investment. And Volvos, at least the older ones that I'm somewhat familiar with, certainly fit that bill.

But the question at hand is what to do when one has what started out as an excellent, reliable, long-lived engine that is now old and unsupported by the manufacturer and parts are hard to find and extremely expensive? And is it smart to buy a used boat today with that engine in it? The long, reliable, parts-free life was enjoyed by the previous owners. Now the new owner is faced with the issue of hard to find and expensive parts.

There would seem to be three choices--- deal with the parts availability and price issues, re-engine the boat, or buy a different boat. Given the huge number and variety of boats on the market, it seems to me that the smarter course would be to avoid the first two choices and go with the last one.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:35 PM   #123
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The Volvo "dealer" in question has a junkyard full of diesel engines and transmissions of all makes. His "deal" is you pull the part(s) out of the unit and then we talk price. So after you invest an hour or two of knucklebusting he gets to set the price? Obviously a graduate of the "Al Capone School of Business." Yeah, we had a disagreement all right.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:17 AM   #124
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The Volvo "dealer" in question has a junkyard full of diesel engines and transmissions of all makes. His "deal" is you pull the part(s) out of the unit and then we talk price. So after you invest an hour or two of knucklebusting he gets to set the price? Obviously a graduate of the "Al Capone School of Business." Yeah, we had a disagreement all right.
Well, that's his policy and it seems to work for him. I would not have been happy either, but your issue is with him and not Volvo. I don't think I would have spent the time removing the part without a price in advance.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:28 AM   #125
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I agree with you completely on that. No question, in my opinion. that the engine with the proven long life is the better way to go for the maximum return on investment. And Volvos, at least the older ones that I'm somewhat familiar with, certainly fit that bill.

But the question at hand is what to do when one has what started out as an excellent, reliable, long-lived engine that is now old and unsupported by the manufacturer and parts are hard to find and extremely expensive? And is it smart to buy a used boat today with that engine in it? The long, reliable, parts-free life was enjoyed by the previous owners. Now the new owner is faced with the issue of hard to find and expensive parts.

There would seem to be three choices--- deal with the parts availability and price issues, re-engine the boat, or buy a different boat. Given the huge number and variety of boats on the market, it seems to me that the smarter course would be to avoid the first two choices and go with the last one.
If there are other engine manufacturers still making and selling parts for 40 year old engines, that would be something to consider. Same if there are aftermarket parts available.

Really though, if you are looking at a boat with a 40 year old engine, you have to be thinking about a replacement or major overhaul as part of the deal.

Personally, my reason for buying a boat was to be able to go boating, not to have a project to fill my spare time. I've done a lot of work on my boat, but just "upgrades" that I wanted. It was a "turnkey" boat when I bought it. At my age, I don't expect to be looking at the problems associated with a 40 year old engine.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:34 AM   #126
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R Widman

Anticipating your crying need for facts and documentation and as I said - boatdiesel.com but it will cost you $25.

One fact I can provide right now, Volvo has successfully made us believe they manufacture all their marine engines. Not so (and as pointed out by others on this thread), unlike DD, MTU, Cummins, Cat Perkins and JD.

The essence of this thread is Volvo cannot stock spare parts for all their branded engines because of Volvo Marine cost reductions (check out Volvo's financials) or the original builder is kaput and has discontinued any parts servicing. I really like the Volvo Penta gas engines - who makes those? This re-badging though is not a negative and is commonly done - check out Cruasader, Mercruiser, Northern Lights and Lugger.
sunchaser;

Please read my post above about people posting personal insults in an attempt to prove their point.

You have not provided any facts in this post, only more opinion. And some confusion as well.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:02 PM   #127
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Really though, if you are looking at a boat with a 40 year old engine, you have to be thinking about a replacement or major overhaul as part of the deal.
I think that's true for some kinds of engines. But, for example, people buy older Grand Banks with FL120s in them all the time and expect to continue to get good service from them with parts available at reasonable prices. Our engines will be 40 years old next year and they have about 3,000 hours on them. So far, parts are easy to get as is service.

Assuming it's a good engine to start with, I believe age only becomes a factor if the engine is difficult to find parts fo, if the parts tend to be very expensive, and if professional service is difficult to find.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:06 PM   #128
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If Volvo provided support for their older products, we Volvo owners would not be forced to deal with shady characters to obtain USED parts to keep our engines running.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #129
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R Widman

Insults and confusion? HUMMMM, is it safe to assume you have a Volvo engine?

Anyway, a read of boatdiesel's 470 pages of Volvo archives will indeed show hard to find or expensive Volvo parts as a common complaint. But, dependent upon the size of one's wallet, all marine engine parts can be considered expensive.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:29 PM   #130
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During a misspent youth in motor sport, I bought a tired Nissan rally competition car. Ended up dismantling it and made $$ selling the parts. USA Volvo owners might be well advised to source and store an old engine for parts.Otherwise you are condemned to forever buying salami in thin expensive slices from tricky junk yard operators or Volvo dealers well aware of the scarcity of what little stock they hold.
We are fortunate with a supply of parts for our Lehmans, plus any mechanic can and will work on them, but if I spot a tired 2715E for sale at an ok price,I`m buying it. Just think of the advantage of being able to swap and rebuild parts at leisure. BruceK
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #131
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We are fortunate with a supply of parts for our Lehmans, plus any mechanic can and will work on them, but if I spot a tired 2715E for sale at an ok price,I`m buying it. Just think of the advantage of being able to swap and rebuild parts at leisure. BruceK
That works well for the mechanically inclined. The rest will have to bitch, whine and complain that their 30+ year old diesel isn't supported.

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #132
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That works well for the mechanically inclined.
And the non-mechanically inclined. Seems like every marine diesel mechanic around knows how to work on a Lehman and where to get parts.

And seeing as you're in Powell River, what are the big structures in the hills south of town a ways? We pass them on the way to Desolation Sound and right now I can't even remember what they are. But they're big and seem somewhat out of place. Couldn't spot them on Google Earth so don't know how to describe their location other than south of you.

Or am I visualizing something that actually isn't there?
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:23 AM   #133
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And the non-mechanically inclined. Seems like every marine diesel mechanic around knows how to work on a Lehman and where to get parts.
But yet no one has any specious angst towards Ford or Lehman; neither whom support their product.

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And seeing as you're in Powell River, what are the big structures in the hills south of town a ways? We pass them on the way to Desolation Sound and right now I can't even remember what they are. But they're big and seem somewhat out of place. Couldn't spot them on Google Earth so don't know how to describe their location other than south of you.


Or am I visualizing something that actually isn't there?
That would be the surge tower for the penstock from Lois Lake. A great landmark.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:24 AM   #134
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But yet no one has any specious angst towards Ford or Lehman; neither whom support their product.
That's true to a degree. Ford of England doesn't make the Dorset engine anymore (the base engine for the FL120) but because that engine was used so widely in industrial and agricultural applications, parts still seem to be fairly easy to find. And the auxiliary stuff-- coolant pumps, fuel lift pumps, injectors, injection pipes, fuel injection pump components, rings, bearings, seals, etc.--- must still be made by vendors as getting new ones seems to be a snap.

As to the Lehman stuff, that could be a little tougher. For example the raw water pump coupler is not available anymore anywhere. So when it breaks---- which its designer, Bob Smith, says it eventually will, the only recourse is to change to a different, currently made pump (Johnson). And I understand the Lehman water cooled exhaust manifold is no longer available as a new part (as opposed to salvaging one off another engine). However Bob told me it should last "forever" since its coolant cooled, not raw water cooled.

And today's American Diesel is the re-incarnation of Lehman in a manner of speaking. Bob Smith was an engineer for Lehman and designed many of the marinization components for the FL engines. Today he and his son Brian continue to provide support for these engines in terms of parts, service, and assistance/advice.

I think one difference between the Volvo engines and the Ford Lehmans is that Ford made a bazilliion Dorset engines over a fairly long period of time and they're all the same. And Leman made, installed, or sold a huge number of their marinization kits for that engine. And they're all the same. So the parts pool is pretty extensive at least for now.


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That would be the surge tower for the penstock from Lois Lake. A great landmark.
Thanks for that info. My wife and I have been speculating why there would be a big tower out in the middle of "nowhere."
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:41 AM   #135
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And Leman made, installed, or sold a huge number of their marinization kits for that engine. And they're all the same. So the parts pool is pretty extensive at least for now."
They won't last forever so in 20 or maybe 30 years they will be in the class of the Volvo's as far as parts availability.

Don't airplanes have the same issues? If it wasn't for some old AP in a remote little airport that knows how to make part ABC the whole plane would have to be disassembled and scraped.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:36 AM   #136
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If it wasn't for some old AP in a remote little airport that knows how to make part ABC the whole plane would have to be disassembled and scraped.

On older , non plastic , aircraft most tin knockers can make a required piece .

How do you think the kept themm flying in WWII?

Most of todays light planes that are not plastic are close to WWII in aluminum construction.
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