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Old 10-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #101
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London bridges falling down, falling down... err... Ring around the mulberry bush... err... One one-thousand, two one=thousand - - > I’m coming to find you!

This exercise of trying to assist a boater has become a child’s game we are playing with seemingly no real base provided for us to be enabled toward completion of our part-finding assistance offering. - Art
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[QUOTE=Art] Come on Marin... contact your Volvo owning buddy and get the engine year and model... as well as the all important part number. Seems to me this Forum going after that part is the best bet your friend has to solve his Volvo part problem! - Art
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Originally Posted by Marin
I suspect there is nothing this forum has to offer my acquaintance that he has not already thought of or tried. As I said he has a lifetime career in the marine industry with connections in most or all of the marine diesel manufacturers including Volvo. I do know from when he showed us around the boat after he bought it that they are standard issue Volvo marine diesels from that era, the 1970s I believe, but while he told us the model it was a few years ago and I don't remember. I don't even remember their power. The boat is about 40 feet long.
Marin – No matter how much one person knows about a topic there is always a chance that a group of concerned, thinking persons (other boaters in this case) can solve a problem that said person cannot. To think otherwise is irrational. - Art


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Originally Posted by Marin
I don't see him very often and I'm scheduled to head out to direct a five-country shoot in a week or so and won't be back in the US until later in November. But if I see him before we leave I'll try to remember to ask him what the engines are.
Marin – How could you forget after so many here have offered assistance? - Art

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Originally Posted by Marin
I don't know this fellow that well. We bump into him now and again in the marina which is how we came to learn of his current predicament.
Marin – Do you know his name for phone call, can’t you get contact to him via harbor master of your/his Marina, can’t you leave note in a baggie with small weight inserted for wind protection aboard his boat with this forum’s offer of assistance?

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Originally Posted by Marin
I perhaps should add that should this fellow decide to re-engine his boat it I don't think it will be any sort of financial burden for him. (Sooo! – Art) I brought him up originally simply as an illustration of the tough time the owners of boats with older Volvo diesels can have in finding parts. But he'll get his problem solved eventually one way or another.
Marin – This guy exist, or was this exercise “... simply [used] as an illustration...”??? - Art
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #102
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Marin says, "most of what is on this Forum is opinion and not fact," or words to that effect.

A few years ago I was giving testimony in a contract case where the opposing council maintained I had no facts but only opinions. The Judge asked me a few , what I thought, simple questions and then said I was stating fact due to my expert credentials and invovlement in the case. Large sums changed hands based upon a dispute where issues of fact vs opinions were argued. So,

Therefore, I maintain, based upon the facts presented in this case, that the owner of the vessel and engine in question, is incapable of finding a suitable camshaft for this unknown to the courts, vessel and engine. Further the court rules, no facts have been presented to show the engine in question was built by Volvo. Further, the fact that the engine cannot be demonstrated to be built by Volvo does not mean it it was built by Perkins, Kubota or BMW.

Please chime in Bruce K!!
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #103
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Marin says, "most of what is on this Forum is opinion and not fact," or words to that effect.

A few years ago I was giving testimony in a contract case where the opposing council maintained I had no facts but only opinions. The Judge asked me a few , what I thought, simple questions and then said I was stating fact due to my expert credentials and invovlement in the case. Large sums changed hands based upon a dispute where issues of fact vs opinions were argued. So,

Therefore, I maintain, based upon the facts presented in this case, that the owner of the vessel and engine in question, is incapable of finding a suitable camshaft for this unknown to the courts, vessel and engine. Further the court rules, no facts have been presented to show the engine in question was built by Volvo. Further, the fact that the engine cannot be demonstrated to be built by Volvo does not mean it it was built by Perkins, Kubota or BMW.

Please chime in Bruce K!!
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:55 PM   #104
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So when I call a Volvo dealer for a part and he says "Volvo no longer supports that product" it is the dealer's opinion and not fact?
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:58 PM   #105
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So when I call a Volvo dealer for a part and he says "Volvo no longer supports that product" it is the dealer's opinion and not fact?
Depends on the dealer...
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Marin
I don't know this fellow that well.
In that he's not a "boating buddy" as Art suggested. We know him well enough to talk to him when we see him and visa versa. But he's not someone we see all that often. Particularly now since his boat's been inop for months.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:39 PM   #107
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Marin – How could you forget after so many here have offered assistance? - Art
Art-- You guys are the ones making a mountain out of a molehill here, not me. Right now my primary concern is getting 1,000 pounds of video equipment through customs into Qatar in a week or so. On the list of things that are important to me this guy's engine issue is right down at the very bottom of the list. What he does or doesn't do is not anything I spend time thinking about other than the few minutes I've spent responding to this thread.

He mentioned it in passing in a conversation awhile back and I brought it up here as an example of the kinds of issues people have with Volvo engines, or at least older ones. He didn't ask me if I had any ideas or if I knew anyone who knows anything about these engines or where to get parts. He simply expressed frustration at the time it was taking to locate the parts and the lack of interest or information forthcoming from Volvo itself and that he was starting think about re-engining the boat. How serious he is on the latter I have no idea.

I doubt I'll see him again for months by which time he will most likely have long since dealt with the problem with his engine one way or another and I will have forgotten he even had the problem unless he happens to bring it up again. He's dealing with it and he has the means to deal with it any way he sees fit.

To be blunt Art, I'm not interested in other boaters' problems. I can be sympathetic and I might share our experience if we've had the same issue, but that's as far as it goes. Our two boats are the only ones we're interested in and we do what we can to solve the issues that come up with them. I'm not a boat "fan" like yourself, Eric, and some of the others on this forum. I like our two boats and what we do with them, but with a couple of local exceptions I have no real interest in other people's boats or what they do with them.

Yes, the fellow with the Volvo Pentas we've been talking about is real. Whether anyone here chooses to believe that or not is not my concern. I related his experience the same as ancora and others have related theirs. How you choose to interpret these experiences as they relate to the wisdom of buying a boat with Volvo engines is totally up to you.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #108
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I get it now...it is a conspiracy by Volvo dealers not to sell Volvo parts and make money. How sneaky of them.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:03 PM   #109
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Does anyone need to "know" more???

I think this thread needs to be deleted.

If someone had the time to pick out 4 or 5 of the best posts and delete the rest that would be better but would it be worth it?

On a positive note a lot of you guys are pick's on Marin and he may deserve it. Another positive is that every one seems to be so nice about it. But I know Marin and you're not going to change his mind. So let's vote or delete.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:55 PM   #110
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Does anyone need to "know" more???

I think this thread needs to be deleted.

If someone had the time to pick out 4 or 5 of the best posts and delete the rest that would be better but would it be worth it?

On a positive note a lot of you guys are pick's on Marin and he may deserve it. Another positive is that every one seems to be so nice about it. But I know Marin and you're not going to change his mind. So let's vote or delete.
I vote that I place great thanks to all contributors... I received some good input to my inquiry about Volvo diesels... seeing as I am this tread's OP, i.e. Numero Uno!! And, it would have been a nice (hopefully successful) exercise to let us all join forces in helping locate the cam shaft for the one in need (Marin's "non" boat-buddy), but, Marin could care less of that boat owner’s need at this time, as per his posts clearly state; but, that is fine too!

That said, I bid you all a fine ado and wish all the best to those who own Volvo diesels. Depending on circumstances as they unfold... I too might even become a Volvo owner, after more careful research that is - - > regarding part availability for specific year/model engines that are at hand.

Cheers! – Art

PS: Eric, although you seem to be bothered by this thread and ask it be deleted, why I’m not sure, I respectfully advise that this thread stay available for the good of any person who may need to delve into TF archives re Volvo diesels. Northern Spy placed a comprehensive listing to Volvo dealers/repair shops on his # 69 post (I copied it into my boat folder, just incase need may arise). Others also posted useful info. Have a heart for thems that may need to read bout Volvos in the future! Soooo – For anyone who owns Volvos and is acquainted with this thread, if you have problem locating a part start a thread and list the year, engine model, and part number... you might have a plethora of TF boaters come to your assistance – except Marin, that is! Just kidding Marin.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #111
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So Volvo no longer supports a 40 year old engine. That's a surprise? Can you go to a Chevy dealer and buy a camshaft for a 1970 Vega? If not, would GM corporate be willing to help find one?

I think it's important to realize that for every disgruntled owner who posts his complaints on Internet message boards, there are hundreds of satisfied customers who just went to their supplier, bought the parts they needed, installed them, and went boating.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:20 PM   #112
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I think it's important to realize that for every disgruntled owner who posts his complaints on Internet message boards, there are hundreds of satisfied customers who just went to their supplier, bought the parts they needed, installed them, and went boating.
Which, of course, is totally irrelevant to someone like ancora and others who may be having a tough time trying to keep an older engine going.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:06 PM   #113
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Good post and good points Art. Perhaps I was seeing mostly the Marin v/s the horde act. And the only small diesel engine that I thought was sweet and nice was a Volvo. But when I re-powered I passed on Volvo entirely because of the never ending comments on Volvo's very expensive parts.

rwidman,
Vega is a very bad example. Most people on this forum won't even know what a Vega is. I'll bet I can get a camshaft for my 73 Buick though. But I agree re the "hundreds of satisfied customers" comment. Also you made a very good post earlier that I can't see now.

The main thing I'd like to know is if the quality of the Volvo engine better than average? I suspect they are all basically just engines and ther'e is scarcely anything really better about Deer's, Lugger's or all the rest. Kinda like Chevrolets and Cadilac's. The only engines that I know of that is really better is a blueprinted engine. And I know of no bad engines either. But for me it's much easier to think of a bad engine than an engine significantly better than average.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:26 PM   #114
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Eric--- The only experience I've had with Volvo Penta marine diesels was in the 70s in Hawaii when a good friend I fished with a lot ordered a custom-made PNW "trawler" styled fishing boat from a shipyard in Lake Union to replace the 28' Uniflite he and I had fished with for years. He was getting out of the flying business and into commercial fishing.

He ordered the boat with a Volvo Penta turbocharged, aftercooled diesel (straight six as I recall) because his research, which included talking to a lot of professional engine folks and commercial fishermen in the Seattle area, convinced him that the Volvo of that era was a better designed, better built, more reliable and, most importantly, longer-lived engine than the competition.

His experience in later years seems to have born this out. He currently runs a small fleet of longline tuna boats that go out for a month or so at a time, come back, unload, and go back out. He showed me through one of his boats in Honolulu several years ago and it, like the others, was equipped with a Volvo Penta diesel and a big Northern Lights generator.

On his orders, his captains operate the engines at 1500 rpm throughout every voyage and the engines are never shut down unless there is a problem. And he told me that he gets really pissed off if these engines go anything less than about 30,000 hours TBO, which apparently they rarely do.

His subsequent dissatisfaction had nothing to do with the engines, their efficiency, their reliability, or their longevity. It has to do with the increasing difficulty of getting parts in a timely manner and the cost of those parts.

How today's Volvo marine diesels compare with the Cats and Cummins and Deeres, and so forth of today I have no idea. Nobody I respect in the marine industry has told me one way or the other. But in the late 70s and 80s, I do think Volvo made a superior marine diesel based on the reputation I saw them earn in Hawaii.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:56 AM   #115
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rwidman,
Vega is a very bad example. Most people on this forum won't even know what a Vega is. I'll bet I can get a camshaft for my 73 Buick though. But I agree re the "hundreds of satisfied customers" comment.
re: Vega, true and I started to post something to that effect. The engine that Marin is talking about is older than many of the members here, How long should a company be ecpected to produce and stock parts for a discontinued product? This support costs the company money and in the end, they will be storing and then disposing of expensive, unsold parts.

You can get that 73 Buick camshaft, but probably not from a Buick dealer. More likely aftermarket, rebuilt or used. There were many, many more of those engines built than a particular Volvo marine engine.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:07 AM   #116
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Which, of course, is totally irrelevant to someone like ancora and others who may be having a tough time trying to keep an older engine going.
And you are helping these folks locate parts how?

ancora went to a junkyard and found the part he needed but he got into an argument with the owner over the price and left without the part. He needs a different kind of help.

Seriously now, what's better, an engine that lasts 40 years and has to be taken out of service because parts aren't available or one that blows up after twenty years and has to be replaced?
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:09 AM   #117
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In defense of Marin's post, Volvo indeed has its higher than normal share of complaints. That is his thesis, way more than a wayward camshaft intended as illustrative. Sure there are happy campers like R Cooke who really use and know and their Volvo equipped vessels, but a perusal of boatdiesel's Volvo archives is illuminating.

The Volvo IPS drives successfully bury one of Volvo's striking complaint issues, "smoke." Since none of us have IPS though, Volvo "smoke" complaints will continue. For a really troubled engine, check out stories on the Cat 3116.

By the way, a war of words with Marin is not going to improve your batting average, he's good.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:17 AM   #118
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In defense of Marin's post, Volvo indeed has its higher than normal share of complaints. .
Compared to the number of units in service? Facts, please. Documentation is needed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:55 AM   #119
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R Widman

Anticipating your crying need for facts and documentation and as I said - boatdiesel.com but it will cost you $25.

One fact I can provide right now, Volvo has successfully made us believe they manufacture all their marine engines. Not so (and as pointed out by others on this thread), unlike DD, MTU, Cummins, Cat Perkins and JD.

The essence of this thread is Volvo cannot stock spare parts for all their branded engines because of Volvo Marine cost reductions (check out Volvo's financials) or the original builder is kaput and has discontinued any parts servicing. I really like the Volvo Penta gas engines - who makes those? This re-badging though is not a negative and is commonly done - check out Cruasader, Mercruiser, Northern Lights and Lugger.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:01 AM   #120
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Correction: you can join boatdiesel.com for nothing and engage in the forums only.
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