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Old 08-22-2016, 01:33 AM   #21
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ANd I have heard that not all John Deeres are John Deeres. I do know they used a lot of Toyota blocks as well....and that is not a bad thing.
And if you have a small John Deere farm tractor with an under 100 HP diesel it is a Yanmar. No idea if that applies to their marine engines.
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:32 AM   #22
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And if you have a small John Deere farm tractor with an under 100 HP diesel it is a Yanmar. No idea if that applies to their marine engines.
And if its a Yanmar it could be anything
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:19 AM   #23
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That's certainly true with a sea water cooled aftercooler, which I see the 6125AFM75 is. My 6090AFM75 has a coolant cooled aftercooler, so not subject to the same hazards. r.
I'd guess all dry stack newer Ns utilize jacket water after cooling. A few years ago I plumbed around a seawater after cooler due to internal leakage. Engine ran fine, costs to repair not cheap. Oh the joys of newer diesels.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:54 AM   #24
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My 80-HP JD-4045 runs like a deer, and the JD mechanic prefers working on my four cylinder rather than JD's larger engines. Perhaps it's due to easy access.




I respectfully request that this picture be removed.
My wife wants to know why our boat is not this clean.
This is really causing me grief and probably future days of work.
(You could eat off that engine)
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:00 AM   #25
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I don't know the lugger models off hand, but in the size range that you would see on our boats, they are either Deere or Komatsu engines with Lugger-designed and build marinization. I think the Deeres are either the 6068 or 6125 block. I don't know what Komatsu engine is used. I know they use Toyota engines in some of the generators as well as the Deere 4045. And Shibaura in the smaller generators.

I could find out definitely for any model if it really matters.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:41 AM   #26
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I do happen to know:

Lugger is the trade name for Northern Lights/Alaska Diesel in-house Marinisation of industrial Diesel engines, used for both propulsion and prime movers for generation.

Current Lugger Marinized engines are available for USEPA Tier III (which is the current emissions requirement for small commercial and pleasure craft) generation from 5kWe to 40kWe. From 50 kWe to 545kWe we use already Marinized base engines...currently John Deere and Scania.

We still provide Lugger Marinised Deere-based generators for IMO II emissions required applications.

In the past we provided Lugger propulsion engines using both John Deere and Komatsu base engines. None of these products made it past the USEPA III emissions regulations, therefore we left the propulsion market temporarily.

We are currently developing the next generation of Lugger Marinised propulsion and generation engines following our traditional goal of finding the best, most reliable base Diesel engine available, and engineering/designing the most durable marinisation components to exceed customer expectations on reliability and durability. Once we are satisfied that we have met these goals, we then will proudly call it a Lugger.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:47 AM   #27
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It's not the same model as yours, but I'm delighted with the JD 6076s in my GB--one of the reasons I bought this particular boat.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:48 AM   #28
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That's great news about getting back into producing propulsion engines. We are very happy with our almost 12,000 hour Lugger in our Nordic Tug.
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:51 PM   #29
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Pacopico,do you have a estimated timeframe for that?
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:56 PM   #30
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The goal is to have the first New Lugger series to the market next year (2017). We have base engine selection done, and are working on marinisation now. After we have a Marinised engine, we must retest emissions, tweak fuel tables and controls as necessary, and test for final emissions certification. As well, we must receive class certification...which is an equally arduous task - requiring both theoretical and practical testing of the engine and its' integral components (crank, rods, crankcase, etc.)
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:48 AM   #31
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"We have base engine selection done, and are working on marinisation now."

What did you finally chose?

The number of base engines world wide is declining rapidly , because of the Air Police and their testing , and the endless time and cost of the testing.

Has any mechanical injection engine come close to being modern-legal?
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Old 08-26-2016, 08:53 AM   #32
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There are no mechanical engines available in the 70-300HP range we are looking at that are meeting Tier III.

The new engines will be common rail injected.

As far as the manufacturer of the base engine, I need to keep that confidential until we are further down the road.
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:56 AM   #33
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"The new engines will be common rail injected. "

How do you handle the problem of std. fuel being too dirty (as noted in PBB) for use in a common rail system with nornal filtration?

Alfa Laval ,a centrifugal filter , the small one , comes to mind , although 18 wheelers have a small $700 system for lube oil that might work as well.

A great fuel cleaning system would be a good stand alone product , as it is currently needed by the entire planet.

With only a paper cup to toss instead of a dozen old fuel canisters , the greenies would love ya!
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Old 08-27-2016, 10:01 AM   #34
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"The new engines will be common rail injected. "

How do you handle the problem of std. fuel being too dirty (as noted in PBB) for use in a common rail system with nornal filtration?

Alfa Laval ,a centrifugal filter , the small one , comes to mind , although 18 wheelers have a small $700 system for lube oil that might work as well.

A great fuel cleaning system would be a good stand alone product , as it is currently needed by the entire planet.

With only a paper cup to toss instead of a dozen old fuel canisters , the greenies would love ya!

This is a long-ago solved problem. Common rail engines have been in boats for the better part of a decade now. The only real issues is getting techs to read the instructions and NOT pre fill the on-engine filter(s) when the manufacturer says not to. Pre filling can introduce unfiltered fuel which is bad.
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Old 08-27-2016, 10:16 AM   #35
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The only real issues is getting techs to read the instructions...

This is a problem across all disciplines, not unique to boat techs. Simply R'ingTFM has advanced me to the top of my field.
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Old 08-27-2016, 10:47 AM   #36
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Twistedtree is correct: biggest issue is filling the secondary filter with "clean" fuel out of the tank to prime the system which does allow small particles to get into the common rail injectors.

The proper way with any high pressure injection system is to use a secondary pump to pull fuel through the primaries and push through the secondaries, bleeding air from he filter head prior to starting.

if one desires a centrifuge filter can always be added, as they do often on commercial watercraft.

My personal recommendation for single-screw fuel system is duplex primaries with a selector, and vacuum gauge to check filter health, and duplex secondaries with a pressure/vacuum gauge and a selector. With this and some additional valving on the priming pump you can do under-way filter changes. This is how many single-screw commercial operators run...allows for filter changes due to dirty fuel without losing full operational capability.

Also on the note of dirty fuel in secondaries, the nominal rating for secondary filters on high pressure injected engines is 2microns. No one can see two microns!
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:39 AM   #37
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This is a problem across all disciplines, not unique to boat techs. Simply R'ingTFM has advanced me to the top of my field.

So true. This is why we usually end up spending good money to have these guys come on our boats and break stuff. I think my new business slogan will be "we break twice the stuff in half the time, all for half the price". Feels like a winner to me :-)
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Old 08-27-2016, 12:11 PM   #38
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Twistedtree is correct: biggest issue is filling the secondary filter with "clean" fuel out of the tank to prime the system which does allow small particles to get into the common rail injectors.

The proper way with any high pressure injection system is to use a secondary pump to pull fuel through the primaries and push through the secondaries, bleeding air from he filter head prior to starting.

if one desires a centrifuge filter can always be added, as they do often on commercial watercraft.

My personal recommendation for single-screw fuel system is duplex primaries with a selector, and vacuum gauge to check filter health, and duplex secondaries with a pressure/vacuum gauge and a selector. With this and some additional valving on the priming pump you can do under-way filter changes. This is how many single-screw commercial operators run...allows for filter changes due to dirty fuel without losing full operational capability.


Also on the note of dirty fuel in secondaries, the nominal rating for secondary filters on high pressure injected engines is 2microns. No one can see two microns!
I like where this thread is going with the 2 micron absolute rated filters, vacuum gauges in line, and dual parallel primary and secondary filters to allow changes with the engine running. To make this work really well, you need to have low pressure from an in line supply pump or gravity feed to be able to bleed the filters after a change and get all the air out of the filter head while filtering all fuel that is passing through. Some of these common rail setups can be a bear to get primed and restarted after a filter change due to air in the system. That is a source of contamination while trying to bleed air and refilling filters manually several times until the enginestarts.

I did some research on fuel systems in a 6.7 common rail Cummins in a 2009 Dodge 3500. In those early years of the 6.7s they only used one tea cup size fuel filter that had a rating of 5 microns IIRC. They had fuel system problems but of course Dodge would not admit it but on later models added a second filter. On my truck I tried to prevent a problem before it ruined very expensive and brand new fuel system by adding extra filters. I am familiar with filters from bigger trucks, HD equipment and ag applications and have them in stock in bulk quantities at reasonable prices. It was suggested the a water separator filter be first followed by a 2 micron absolute secondary. Çommonly used filters on Cummins N14 common rail electronic engines is a Fleetguard FS1000 with a water drain on the bottom of a full sized cannister, about 9 or ten inches long. It is rated as one of the best water sep filters. The best secondary units I found were the full sized series of Cat filters for their 3406 engines in many modern configurations like C15, C18, and multiple filters for the larger C32 etc. Cat 1R 0749 and a few others are very common in trucking. These are 2 micron absolute, which means that no particle of 2 microns or larger can pass through. There are other filter companies that have this claim but few that can àctually reach that standard. Next is finding a filter base to fit these threads. Good old Napa had the right base, 1 inch 14 thread per inch for the right price, about $25 each. I installed these in line ahead of the stock filter under the deck along the frame and they have worked out well for me. No problems with fuel!! I would think this would be a great setup on a boat to be sure about your fuel supply. Good luck!
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:54 AM   #39
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"Pre filling can introduce unfiltered fuel which is bad."

Which one reason why most wrenches will use a can or two of ATF to prime filters..

According to my reading a 2 micron filter will pass a few 20 micron particles and lots of smaller diameter particles.

PBB claims the only method today getting cleaner fuel is to use a series ,3 or so of the 2 micron filters in series.

"followed by a 2 micron absolute secondary."

the Euro gov fuel testing seems to show that an Absolute filter does not yet exist, hence the reason for the series.
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:43 AM   #40
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IMO the support and parts availability in your area are as important as the engine history.
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