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Old 01-03-2011, 12:42 PM   #21
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

Quote:
Baker wrote:...and folks, I think FF was talking about putting the GAUGE outside of the engine room....not the whole filter assembly.
FF wrote:* "I would get a pair of whatever your favorite filters are , and a pair of lever operated fuel OK ball valves and move it OUT of the engine spaces to a spot you can see them, drain them and as required replace the elements ."

Not that there is anything wrong with that if you have the space to dedicate to fuel management.


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Old 01-04-2011, 04:48 AM   #22
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

".and folks, I think FF was talking about putting the GAUGE outside of the engine room....not the whole filter assembly."

A remote reading DP (differential pressure ) gauge with alarm (murphygages) is better than an Engine room crawl to see a stuck on top vacume gauge..

And yes the filters as well as fuel tank selection are far better and easier to service OUT of the engine room.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #23
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

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O C Diver wrote:Peter B wrote:

Slightly off topic, but stimulated by the pic of the big red engine (120 Lehman, same as mine) in the original post, when I went to check the engine levels and top up as required before heading out last weekend, I noticed a drip from the port end of the oil cooler/heat exchanger, and when I fired her up, two jets of water squirted out from the end join. Needless to say that kiboshed our new year short cruise to watch the fireworks etc.
I presume the gasket has gone in that end, but what are we likely to find when the diesel mechanic pulls it apart. I am preparing myself for the worst - possibly a new unit - as it looks rather corroded round that end, even tho it is bonded through attachment to the engine - or so I thought. I think the zincs were done when the main engine heat exchanger above it was re-conditioned ~ 2 yrs ago. How often should these zincs be changed....? I guess that would be a time thing, rather than an engine hours thing..?
Peter, transmission coolers have soldered end caps (no gaskets). I have had one resoldered at a radiator shop. It lasted about 3 months and then started leaking again. The lead in the solder gets eaten away just like a zinc. Removing the end cap, cleaning both surfaces and resoldering is the only way to get a good seal. Unfortunately it takes real skill to resolder it without disturbing the solder on the internal tube bundle. Buy a new one as a used one will give you no idea of the life expectancy of the solder.

Ted

Thanks Ted.* having found my saved copy of the Lehman manual finally, I see they actually recommend replacement at about 3 yrly intervals, and your soldered ends description fits what it looks like exactly, so yes - a new unit coming up I suspect, and that probably means a new one for the engine oil as well, as they appear to be similar units, and it is no doubt as old as the tranny one which gave way.* Then one wonders about the engine heat exchanger as well - they say clean yrly - replace 5 yrly....this could get ugly.......

*
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:39 AM   #24
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

Hiya,
** Mr. Peter B.* Yes,*I would suspect the life of the zinc is a time thing as well.* When replacing coolers, try to get the cupro/nickel units.* They're supposed to last longer.* Keep in mind, when replacing zincs in these things, do NOT use teflon tape.* Try conductive grease instead.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:46 AM   #25
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

A decent sized ER is a very good place to service filters. But to satisfy FF, where outside the ER space would one locate the filters?
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:54 AM   #26
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

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sunchaser wrote:... where outside the ER space would one locate the filters?
*In the purifier room of course!

It wasn't a suggestion to move the filters and valves into the V berth or aft cabin, it was just a comment that crawling between or around hot machinery on a rolling boat to change a filter or look at a gauge is not ideal. An easily accessed location outside the engine room would be ideal*if such a place existed. If it doesn't then the idea doesn't apply.

Providing a remote reading vacuum gauge is very easily done and eliminates half the potential discomfort.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:32 PM   #27
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

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Peter B wrote:
Thanks Ted. having found my saved copy of the Lehman manual finally, I see they actually recommend replacement at about 3 yrly intervals, and your soldered ends description fits what it looks like exactly, so yes - a new unit coming up I suspect, and that probably means a new one for the engine oil as well, as they appear to be similar units, and it is no doubt as old as the tranny one which gave way. Then one wonders about the engine heat exchanger as well - they say clean yrly - replace 5 yrly....this could get ugly.......

*

*
Peter, shop around when you look for the transmission cooler. When I replaced mine last spring, I was able to find an exact match that had a place to drill and tap it for a 3/8" heat exchanger anode. Most factory oil coolers don't seem to have them (go figure). Most heat exchangers have an anode. On Cummins its a hex head brass pipe plug that the anode screws into. I check mine every season, and need to replace it every 2 or 3 years.

Ted
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #28
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

*

........Then one wonders about the engine heat exchanger as well - they say clean yrly - replace 5 yrly....this could get ugly.......
*


*_________________________________________________ __________

We have a SeaKamp heat exchanger on our Lehman.* We were told with inspections and proper maintenance it should last 15-20 years.* I think we paid around $500 USD.

http://www.seakamp.com/


*
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:15 PM   #29
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

tgwhite, I am going to be quoting from the Parker Hanninfin Corp (RACOR) installation, operation and service information manual which we have as referance in our shop but probably can be viewed at their website. On page 3 they have plumbing schematics detailing the three most common installations. 1) tank above the level of the filter, 2) tank at same level as filter, 3) tank below level of filter. Locations of both a pressure pump and a pump installed in the vacuum side are included in the drawings. Head pressure is not to exceed 15PSI regardless 1) as a result of tank location, or 2) From a pressure pump. Moving on to page 5, SERVICE INSTRUCTIONS, Element Replacement and I quote, Frequency of element replacement is determined by the contamination level of the fuel. Replace the elements every 10,000 miles, every 500 hours, every other oil change, when the vacuum gauge (optional) reads between 6 to 10 inches of mercury(inHG), if power loss is noticed, or annually, which ever comes first. Note always carry extra replacement elements as one tankful of excessively dirty fuel can plug a filter, end quote. There are no ands ifs or buts with respect to what the filter is used for, the filter doesn't know or care if the fuel is going to a diesel stove, a truck, a VW, a water pump, or a boat. The operation of the filter is the same regardless the engine. Head pressure will extend the life of the element because it is easier for a pump to move a fluid using pressure rather than vacuum. Even with pressure the element fouls to the point the vacuum reading will start to increase as the lift pump is still tryin to draw the fuel to the engine and as I stated in my original post and as the Racor manual indicates when the vacuum reaches a specific range it is time to change elements. Analog gages are the most common type used and they are designed to be accurate at mid scale. The typical vacuum gage has a 0-30 range and therefor is only accurate + or - in the area of 15. A compound gage(reads both pressure and vacuum) Is a good alternative as the 0 on the scale is right in the middle of the scale and therefor the low indications are more likely to show up. The scale usually doesn't exceed 15 so this puts the 6-10 in the middle of the range,also good for accuracy. The whole idea of the vacuum gage is to help the operator get the maximum life out of the elements and provide a simple by the numbers way to decide when to change elements. Detroit Diesel has taken a different route for filter monitoring. They have a filter body with clear bowl that allows a full view of the element and this makes it easy to view the fowling line as it moves up the element. The element in the Racor Turbine series filters can be inspected the same way but must be removed first. TRADER
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:26 PM   #30
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

Quote:
trader wrote:

tgwhite, I am going to be quoting from the Parker Hanninfin Corp (RACOR) installation, operation and service information manual which we have as referance in our shop but probably can be viewed at their website. On page 3 they have plumbing schematics detailing the three most common installations. 1) tank above the level of the filter, 2) tank at same level as filter, 3) tank below level of filter. Locations of both a pressure pump and a pump installed in the vacuum side are included in the drawings. Head pressure is not to exceed 15PSI regardless 1) as a result of tank location, or 2) From a pressure pump. Moving on to page 5, SERVICE INSTRUCTIONS, Element Replacement and I quote, Frequency of element replacement is determined by the contamination level of the fuel. Replace the elements every 10,000 miles, every 500 hours, every other oil change, when the vacuum gauge (optional) reads between 6 to 10 inches of mercury(inHG), if power loss is noticed, or annually, which ever comes first. Note always carry extra replacement elements as one tankful of excessively dirty fuel can plug a filter, end quote. There are no ands ifs or buts with respect to what the filter is used for, the filter doesn't know or care if the fuel is going to a diesel stove, a truck, a VW, a water pump, or a boat. The operation of the filter is the same regardless the engine. Head pressure will extend the life of the element because it is easier for a pump to move a fluid using pressure rather than vacuum. Even with pressure the element fouls to the point the vacuum reading will start to increase as the lift pump is still tryin to draw the fuel to the engine and as I stated in my original post and as the Racor manual indicates when the vacuum reaches a specific range it is time to change elements. Analog gages are the most common type used and they are designed to be accurate at mid scale. The typical vacuum gage has a 0-30 range and therefor is only accurate + or - in the area of 15. A compound gage(reads both pressure and vacuum) Is a good alternative as the 0 on the scale is right in the middle of the scale and therefor the low indications are more likely to show up. The scale usually doesn't exceed 15 so this puts the 6-10 in the middle of the range,also good for accuracy. The whole idea of the vacuum gage is to help the operator get the maximum life out of the elements and provide a simple by the numbers way to decide when to change elements. Detroit Diesel has taken a different route for filter monitoring. They have a filter body with clear bowl that allows a full view of the element and this makes it easy to view the fowling line as it moves up the element. The element in the Racor Turbine series filters can be inspected the same way but must be removed first. TRADER
I'm confused, do you think we don't know how to use and service our fuel seperators / filters?

Ted

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Old 01-04-2011, 03:39 PM   #31
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

Trader

I am a very bad boy. Not only do I not read the tags on the mattress, but I do not read the PH instructions and comments. I just change out my Racor filters every year whether they need it or not. Of course if I showed* a vacuum reading of minimal movement, I'd change them out then. This summer I logged a piddling 2600 nm with no needle movement, but in my idle Fall time I changed out my still apparently good Racors. Now I am worried, I do not have a vacuum gauge on my genset, I just change it out every year too - oh oh.

Please tell me how you gauge*the change out period*on*your Racors*and what type of vessel they are on. Do you*have a vacuum gauge*on your genset?
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:57 PM   #32
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RE: Vaccume gages and filters

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*
Most factory oil coolers don't seem to have them (go figure).
Which is why our diesel shop (and American Diesel where we get our cupro-nickel transmission and lube oil heat exchangers) recommended that we*ground the heat exhanger to the block.* This can be done by the simple expedient of removing the paint from the barrel of the exchanger where the mounting clamp is going to clamp onto it.* This connects the exchanger to the block which is protected by the boat's bonding system.
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