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Old 03-22-2016, 04:12 PM   #81
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Given my general level of ignorance, I have thought membership at boatdiesel.com would be worthwhile.
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:40 PM   #82
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Greetings,
Mr. dh. I "borrowed" a friends boatdiesel membership a number of years back and at that time I found very little information on either Ford Lehman engines or Velvet Drive transmissions (going from a poor memory here). As a result I never felt the $25/year worthwhile. That being said, there was/is valuable information on other makes and models.
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:03 PM   #83
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Dave:


As RT notes above, boatdiesel is mostly focused on the high performance diesels that have turbochargers and after coolers. These engines are generally in the 150-600 hp range.


That being said, some years ago they- Ski and others gave me good advice on solving a cooling problem and later a hard starting problem on a 27 hp Yanmar sailboat engine.


What it doesn't do is support the really high performance marine diesels, like the Steyer, Yanmar BY and the Mercury VW based engines. They call those "chain saw diesels".


So, if you have one of those high performance diesels, a boatdiesel membership is invaluable. If you have an old Lehman or Perkins you will still learn a lot. It seems that as time goes on, more of us have the high performance types as the NA engines are becoming rarer.


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Old 03-22-2016, 05:56 PM   #84
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I just forked over the $25 a few days ago just to read the hidden posts concerning the #6 mod to help with cooling.

"They drilled and tapped the block."

Thats it, $25 my ......

LOL
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:02 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
I just forked over the $25 a few days ago just to read the hidden posts concerning the #6 mod to help with cooling.

"They drilled and tapped the block."

Thats it, $25 my ......

LOL
Care to share? I am a member but missed if there was a mod to protect the #6 cylinder.

I have heard the 1 inch water pump helps but nothing else.

I am interested in a mod that keeps you from having to burp the exhaust manifold every run...which also may affect the #6 cylinder.
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:41 PM   #86
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I have no axe to grind in this discussion since I start out knowing nothing. Eric suggested looking at what the manufacturer suggests. So....

The boat that I have an offer on, and am having surveyed next week has a Cummins QSB5.9-380 HO engine (QSB 5.9L 380 hp High Output). According to the Cummins performance curves the max rated RPM is 3000 which produces 375 bhp. Cummins says that their HO engines are rated for pleasure boat use only and not intended for any commercial application that operate 500 hrs per year or less. The HO engines are intended for variable load applications where full power is limited to 1 hour out of every 8 hours of operation. Furthermore reduced power (ie not full power) must be at or below 300rpm less than max rated rpm.

So what does that mean for this engine? As I read it, it means that Cummins says the engine was designed to be run at rpms between 2700 and 3000 no more than 12.5% of the time. At 2700 rpm this engine will produce 260 hp or just under 70% of its rated horsepower.

So, what does this tell me (someone who knows nothing)? It tells me that in this case the engine manufacture says that I shouldn't run the engine at anything more than 70% load for more than 12.5% of its operational time. They also say that the rest of the time, it should be operated at below 70% load. In essence, Cummins is warning me that engine life is risked if operated at too high a load, but they don't have any warning about operating at too low a load.

Now, maybe I am missing some information from Cummins, but that is what it says on their spec sheets for that particular engine.

dhays,
Interesting that they said nothing about low power running. I also saw nothing about being propped correctly. Haha maby they're assuming you would'nt go blubbering around at 1400rpm.
And with the ability to run one hour at a time at wot will be handy getting through narrows w considerable current. I did that from time to time w my Albin but not much to be gained by more throttle in the Willard.
Well it was my idea to ask Cummins and the light loading info may not be there because it's not necessary. Or the question has been so troublesome in the past they just omit it now. But they would'nt omit it if it was very important so I think it's safe to assume that running at a 35% load most of the time should be OK. However I do view running an engine up every now and then to once and awhile is a band-aid substitute for running it 50 to 65% load all the time. With my boat/engine I don't feel I need to "run it up" now and then to "blow her out" is nessessary or even helpful. But if I bought a 32 NT w a Cummins turbo I may change my tune .. a bit. I can't afford one so I probably won't need to support my old statements.
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:00 PM   #87
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Eric, you may want to acquaint yourself with Tony Athens and the boatdiesel website. That site is well recognized as the go to Cummins Q and A site for marine diesels (other brands as well). Gordon J's question on Cummins 330s is right up boatdiesel's alley.

The company Tony works for is Seaboard Marine. Look them up. As best I understand they are the largest Cummins Marine dealer in the US if not the world. I'm sure I'll get corrected on this if I misspoke.

Hi Tom,
Five years ago or so I was a paid up member of BD and found that the majority of the chatter and information was on and about engines very unlike my own. I did'nt join to get info re maintance of my own engine but to learn about diesel boat power in general. I did do some research on DD's and tried to on a blue Yanmar that was in a NT32 (that I wanted to buy) but could'nt find anything on the Yanmar. I had to talk to the local Yanmar distributor for about 5 min before they would even admit there ever was such an engine.
Well I did get something out of BD but when I was up for renewal I decided I just did'nt use enough to stay on. Could have been a mistake as I've wished it was there for me quite a few times since.
Tony A is no doubt an excellent source for information but so is David, Ski and a number of others that I already know and respect. And if the focus was on the old Perkins and FLs I would be more interested than on Cummins and the like. But if I sought out Tony A what would I have? Another opinion. And if it differed from the opinions I've already heard that would be food for thought but nothing nore. But I like thought so who knows what the future will bring.
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:39 PM   #88
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I have a Cummins QSB 5.9 330 HP in my Pacific Trawler. It puts out nearly 1 HP per cubic inch and Dave’s puts out more than 1HP. A few years ago this was considered high performance for a gasoline engine! Its no wonder that Cumming does not recommend extended running at 100% power. I am surprised that they allow 1 hour.

As far as slow running, I have been told that at low power settings the exhaust temperature does not get high enough to burn the carbon from the hot side of the turbocharger. Therefore it is recommended to run at a higher power (70-80%) for five to ten minutes on every trip to keep carbon from building up. It sort of sounds like the old adage to “blow it out…” I do this as it seems like cheap insurance and probably does no harm.

I live about five miles from Seaboard Marine and have met Tony Athens. He is a fine gentleman very knowledgeable. He has a series of articles on their website that are worth reading.

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Old 03-22-2016, 07:56 PM   #89
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...I live about five miles from Seaboard Marine and have met Tony Athens. He is a fine gentleman very knowledgeable. He has a series of articles on their website that are worth reading...
Never met the man but there is a wealth of information there even if you don't own a Cummins. (we've owned 2 Perkins and a Ford Lehman).

Cummins Marine Diesel Repower Specialists
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:50 AM   #90
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Here is the answer I got to the question from Tony Athens on boat diesel:


Date: 23 March, 2016 - 12:56 AM
ArrowUp251747
ArrowDown251747
Your engine will not suffer anything running them like this, regardless of what others may say.. If´s it easy & safe, run them up to 1800-2000 for 1-3 minutes at the end of a long day..And if you cannot or forget, don´t worry. But, be sure your thermostats keep the coolant temps at close to 180F(or higher) in an operation like this..Other than that, not to worry about running this slow...................................Worry about what really does these engine in--Poor exhaust design, not properly serviced aftercoolers, overload (will never be your issue) and just lack of "common sense" maintenance applicable to how you use your boat........................I am still waiting to see any Cummins engine have a shortened life by running slow yet you still here those who say to need to run them at something like 70-80%-------------------Totally stupid and could never be qualified by anything definitive from any field experience--On the other had, I have not less that 100 engines that I have watch over that run 100% of the time at less than 30% of of rated HP yet have looked over 10,000 hours, with many over 20000 hrs and some over 30,000 with ZERO base engine issues. I thing a pair of QSM we looked over just turned over 40,000 hours and it has spent it´s entire life at 1600 RPM or less burning 7 GPH or less.. -------------------------------Only the exact of running at 70-80% opposite make them last "FOREVER"..
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Old 03-23-2016, 07:57 AM   #91
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"It sort of sounds like the old adage to “blow it out…” I do this as it seems like cheap insurance and probably does no harm."

The only harm could be from , Blowing them out" and then shutting down too soon.

IF the EGT is really hot , the turbo will also be really hot.

It takes 3-5 min for the turbo to cool down to the temperature that will not cook the oil on shutdown.

Most folks entering a marina have lots of cooling time as they manuver,.so no problem.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:17 AM   #92
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Asked and answered.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:37 AM   #93
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Something that occured to me;

Keeping the oil temp up is the key to running w low loads but the most direct source of heat in the lube oil is not from fire in the hole or load on the engine. It's from friction. The oil goes to all the places where there is friction .... bearings and cylinder walls.

I wonder if one ran a diesel engine at high rpm and no load would the oil temp come up as high or higher than an engine under significant load at much lower rpm?

Lets say I under propped my boat 300rpm (3000rpm engine). In order to get enough power to push the boat I may need to run the engine much closser to max rpm. Maybe 2800. There would be very low forces on engine parts like crank bearings and cylinder walls but many more strokes to deliver the same power. Torsional vibration would be less as there would be more power strokes of lesser intensity. But the heat that gets into the lube oil would get there directly as friction on the bearings where the oil is in contact with the heated (from friction) bearings.

So rpm and the resultant friction may not be a better source for lube oil heat than combustion heat. The friction probably dosn't create enough heat to make upping the rpm a good way to keep one's oil warm.

If I was a serious underloader I'd be thinking of an oil cooler by-pass and as FF suggests very frequent oil changes. If an engine is well broken-in just keeping the oil temp up to 180F or so could insure a healthy engine despite almost constant low power output.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:45 AM   #94
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Given my general level of ignorance, I have thought membership at boatdiesel.com would be worthwhile.
Dave & others...

To clarify for anyone considering BD
Membership is not req'd to access the website - you can even use the search function to see what articles / forum posts etc are available you are limited in the ability to open the actual articles, manuals, etc.

This allows you a "peek in the box" before committing to the membership.
My opinion agrees w/ others - even w/o specific engine info there is a wealth of info if you are looking to learn more about marine diesels.
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Old 03-23-2016, 12:44 PM   #95
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Don,
And for me just thinking about all the information that was added after I left is motovation. Thanks for the reminder.
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Old 03-23-2016, 12:59 PM   #96
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As for me, I went ahead and spent $25 enjoying BD. I am buying a new boat and want to make sure I understood as much as I could about larger diesel engines. I am a sailboat her and trawler engines are considerably different, not just larger. I think the $25 investment has handsome returns. Just reading the articles on the exhaust system and aftercooler alone will probably save me thousands of dollars.

My two cents

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Old 03-23-2016, 02:43 PM   #97
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As for me, I went ahead and spent $25 enjoying BD. I am buying a new boat and want to make sure I understood as much as I could about larger diesel engines. I am a sailboat her and trawler engines are considerably different, not just larger. I think the $25 investment has handsome returns. Just reading the articles on the exhaust system and aftercooler alone will probably save me thousands of dollars.

My two cents

Gordon
Gordon, just FYI.....I am pretty sure when tony talks about your model of engine(and mine) he refers to them as 315hp because that is what it makes. Cummins did some weird metric power rating that they rated at 330. But I think SAE they make 315. There are older engines that people will say 315hp and are in fact 315hp...they are the same exact engine as ours except for a few accessories. You will also see the C series Cummins suffer the same nomenclature issue. Are they 450hp? I don't think so. I think they are 417. And some people round up to 420. Ski would be the one to clear this up.

And I think the Cummins manual says to load up engines one hour out of every eight hours if you are under loading. Again, I agree with Tony and everything said here. But just to give you an idea of what Cummins says under the pressure of warranty and marketing.
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Old 03-23-2016, 02:55 PM   #98
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As for me, I went ahead and spent $25 enjoying BD. I am buying a new boat and want to make sure I understood as much as I could about larger diesel engines. I am a sailboat her and trawler engines are considerably different, not just larger. I think the $25 investment has handsome returns. Just reading the articles on the exhaust system and aftercooler alone will probably save me thousands of dollars.
Gordon, I am in exactly the same situation. So far in my boating life an engine has been a necessary evil. I paid more attention to sail shape than engine performance and maintenance. That is going to change.

The boat I have an offer on has a Cummins QSB 5.9L 380hp engine. It is a high output engine with aftercooler and turbocharger. I found lots of information on not only this type of engine, but this specific engine on boatdiesel.com. So for me, it was worth the $25 for a year. To put it in perspective, that is less than the cost of one anode for me future engine. I figure it is a cheap resource to help further my education. May or may not renew it in a year, we will see.
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Old 03-23-2016, 03:35 PM   #99
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Baker,

Thanks for the info. I was wondering why on BD I only found a 6BTA5.9 315 HP motor. Was not sure if that was mine. I need not worry about warranty as the boat is 13 years old with 1080 hours on the engines.

Dhays, which boat are you getting? Is it on Yacht world? I have not yet bough any zincs for the engines, but am prepared for sticker shock. My current volvo engine has no zincs, nor does my panda fisher 6KW genset. I have one zinc on my max-prop.

I learned after joining BD that the surveyors I used are the same he used when he brought a boat from Florida to the Virgins. He posted the results. I can tell you that the engine survey at $1000 made me blink, but I think well worth the money -- by a wide margin.

On renewal, I am having the same thought. We'll see how much I keep refering back to the site after closing on the boat.

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Old 03-23-2016, 03:42 PM   #100
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Gordon,

The boat I have an offer on is a North Pacific 43 located in Puget Sound. It is having a survey next Wednesday. I haven't bought zincs for the engine but I have priced them. My current Yanmar on my sailboat has no zincs in the engine.
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