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Old 11-25-2011, 10:43 PM   #21
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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Marin wrote:
*Really?* To me it doesn't seem natural to go that slow across the water.* It seems like I'm being cheated.

30 mph vs 8 knots.* I'll take the photo on the left every time no matter what the boat size.
*Doesn't feel like "trawling" to me.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:47 AM   #22
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Walt,

You're going 2 knots faster than me but burning 4 times as much fuel. GPH is like rent to me. Costs X amount to cruise per day. A weeks cruise costs 7X. And if I could afford it I'd run your boat at 8 knots too. But at a gallon an hour I can basically cruise however much I want. By the way Willy is 8 tons too. I looked at several Island Gypsies and intended to run them at 7 knots. Prolly would have burned about 2.5 gph. But if I could I'd have a boat about 26 feet designed for 12 knots on about 55hp and would burn about 2 gph.

Marin,

I guess I was a little hard on new boat buyers. Fact is they've basically got little to choose from. Most all the boats available have big wide and deep submerged transoms suitable for 15 knots and almost never get run that way. I think it would be better if people bought planing hulls that actually wanted to and intended to travel over hull speed. A 36' planing hull probably goes 10 or 12 knots better than a 36 GB. If you're going to go over hull speed my mind says why even get a trawler? I'm say'in a planing hull goes 8 knots better than a trawler goes 12 to 15.*

Mark I'm for all the "cheating" I can afford.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:08 AM   #23
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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nomadwilly wrote:*Most all the boats available have big wide and deep submerged transoms suitable for 15 knots and almost never get run that way.Mark I'm for all the "cheating" I can afford.
*Mmmm.... you'd be surprised.* Most of the newer GBs we see out on the water, and there are a lot of them down here, are doing at least ten knots and most of them tend to be going twelve or thirteen or even more.* And of course all the big semi-planing boats like Bayliners and such are thumping along at two-digit speeds.* It's been my observation that the people who have the power in their boats use it.* We certainly would if we had it.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:10 AM   #24
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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markpierce wrote:
*Doesn't feel like "trawling" to me.

We didn't get into boating to imitate a fishing boat.* We got into it to go places as fast as we were willing to spend the money to go.* Unfortunately we are not willing to spend the money to run a cruiser at 15-20 knots.* But we would if we were willing to absorb the cost.* Maybe soon, though......
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:36 AM   #25
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twin vs. single engine rages on....

Marin, that's the second time you've hinted you are about to come into substantial money. Have you figured out a way to make sure you win Powerball, plan to rob a bank, planning to knock off a rich relative whose will you know you're in, or about to get a promotion and huge fat rise in Boeing. Sorry to be so cheeky, but yah got me intrigued.....

PS, I promise not to tell anybody - my lips are sealed...


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 26th of November 2011 06:37:08 AM
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:48 AM   #26
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

All I know is that 90 percent of the boaters I know that own 13 foot whalers to 55 foot motor yachts use their boats less because of fuel costs...maybe 100 percent.* In the old days..people used their boats less because of time constraints...now it's because of fuel.* Even fishemen aren't running and gunning to get to fish anymore...just don't want to pay the fuel bill.

Many of these people still would buy high powered boats because it they didn't...they wouldn't be able to use their boats to their liking.* They wouldn't be able to get where they wanted to go in the time alloted...even the ones who only go 10-15 miles to destinations for a nice lunch or dinner...they don't want to make it an all day trip.

So manufaturers are really still providing the public what they want...otherwise they certainly would be out of business...hmmm...tho many are...but there's another topic.

The only raeson I say most boaters are ignorant ( note I never said stupid)...is most really don't know much about hull design, hull speed, better efficiencies, planning around current shifts, anchoring,**etc...etc...they have never needed to in a lifetime of THEIR way of boating.*

Most of us on here probably do...because we chose that path...but we are in the vast minority.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:10 AM   #27
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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markpierce wrote:
Walt, if you don't exceed 1600 RPM, I'll be able to keep up with you.
*Mark:

That's my point! Even with the bigger engines, if I slow down, I can buddy boat with my sailor friends. My speed options, (little as they are) however, allow me to react better to conditions, time, weather, etc.

If you really give a lot of thought to what Marin's desires (speed) are, a faster boat (say mid teens) makes a lot of sense. Look at what Don Moon is doing in his 25 knot Sabre or Carey does in his lobster boat. Their weather windows can be much smaller than ours because of their higher cruise speeds but they can still slow down and smell the roses.

Nope, I favor bigger engines (single or twin) and the resale is better. (believe it or not) Although fuel consumption is touted so often on this Forum, time is just as important but doesn't get the press fuel usage does.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:56 AM   #28
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Don't mistake having money to pay for*excess fuel with being ignorant about boating. It just depends on your frame of reference and game plan. Locked in at hull speed in the CA delta seems a waste of good time whereas going at hull speed to Hawaii from the Delta makes a lot of sense. It is OK to burn fuel for fun and pleasure whether at 1.5 or 150 gph, it is just money - a truly disposable item according to the EU, Athens, Rome, Lisbon*and Washington financial/political gurus.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:39 AM   #29
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Tom wrote: " Locked in at hull speed in the CA delta seems a waste of good time " Seems to me there's no great distance to go there so a slow boat would be ideal. Slower boats also have a slower and more pleasant motion and as I recall breezy conditions and a steep chop is common in the Delta. Willy would be quite happy there but her 3 1/2' draft may not be ideal.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:21 AM   #30
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twin vs. single engine rages on....

Eric, there are about 1,000 miles of navigable waterways in the California Delta. Every year I visit new places. Our GB draws 4'-2" and we never have too many problems. However, we move with caution and keep a vigilant eye on the depth sounder!

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Saturday 26th of November 2011 02:25:07 PM
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:51 PM   #31
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Well that's good news. I'd love to boat there. I've spent a lot of time on the sloughs of the Snohomish River north of Seattle *...fond memories. Do they allow jet ski's in the Delta? Wish I had GPS charts for the Delta then I could "cruise" there. You, Mark and PG's pics are a good substitute at this point.*
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:12 PM   #32
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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nomadwilly wrote:
Wish I had GPS charts for the Delta then I could "cruise" there. .*
*Eric

You can download Open CPN nav program for free and then download NOAA charts for anywhere in USA, also for free and vicariously cruise anywhere you wish.

Add a $20 USB GPS and you have a "back up" chart plotter. I am far from being a computer expert but had no trouble with this.

Regards
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:19 PM   #33
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Eric, jet skis are allowed. Actually, I can't think of many things that are not allowed in the Delta. It's one of the few places in California that one can go with complete freedom. Of course, we practice "rules of the road" along with common courtesy...no wakes in marina areas, private docks, etc.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:26 AM   #34
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

I go offline for a few days to visit family out of town and you all have taken off with this thread!
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:10 AM   #35
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

"Glad you're back Tony.

psneeld said:

"The only raeson I say most boaters are ignorant ( note I never said stupid)...is most really don't know much about hull design, hull speed, better efficiencies, planning around current shifts, anchoring, etc...etc...they have never needed to in a lifetime of THEIR way of boating."
That may be a nail on the head statement. Hull functions to me are basically obvious where'as advancing my skills on this computer is anything but obvious. We should all make the best of our time ...on the water or anywhere. Those of us that go roaring off to calm waters when it gets a bit rough probably should spend some time aboard a truly capable sea boat. Or going out in the nasty w a truly capable helmsman to learn what you can do and see what your own boat can do. You may be surprised at both.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:07 PM   #36
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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nomadwilly wrote:
Those of us that go roaring off to calm waters when it gets a bit rough probably should spend some time aboard a truly capable sea boat. Or going out in the nasty w a truly capable helmsman to learn what you can do and see what your own boat can do.
*We could also see how effective a pepper spray bottle is on a grizzly before we pack a 300 Weatherby around all day. Or, how about this....don't put your turn signals on when changing lanes, so as to to see how alert the other drivers are.

There are a lot of things I can do to increase my knowledge base, going out in rough water is not on my list.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:43 PM   #37
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

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SeaHorse II wrote:There are a lot of things I can do to increase my knowledge base, going out in rough water is not on my list.
Agree, getting caught is one thing but going out in it is this side of ....* well let's just say it's not smart.

*
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:41 PM   #38
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

The difference between putting one's self out in snotty weather and finding one self there when the number comes up is more a matter of time than degree. If your boat can't handle the waves a 30 knot wind can muster w a considerable fetch (but not extensive) then you probably have a bad design. When I say go out there and play in the nasty I'm not say'in head out on a 30 mile crossing in an opposing tide and wind I'm talking about getting your feet wet and I do'nt mean literally. If you've done a lot of 15 knot stuff then stick your nose out in a 20 knot wind and do'nt go very far because when you turn around controlling the boat may be much more difficult than going out. One dos'nt learn hang gliding by launching off a 5000' craig and boating is no different. Most experienced boaters will eventually say "the boat can take more than me". But there's no need to practice for the perfect storm either. But one should try to keep learning as time goes on. I've known pilots that were afraid to get over 2 miles from the airport and they did'nt know much about flying even though they had considerable air time.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:12 PM   #39
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RE: twin vs. single engine rages on....

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
...*Willy would be quite happy there but her 3 1/2' draft may not be ideal.
*You'd do fine.* Just don't take this Pt. Richmond-based sailboat.
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