Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-16-2013, 05:26 PM   #21
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,363
Tracie

I do believe you've got it. Rick's picture speaks volumes for what may lurk in the tank.
__________________
Advertisement

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #22
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,226
Rick Bs picture looks like a tank that has several loads of contaminated fuel & a dose of water. Once a tank is clean buying clean fuel from a reliable provider, keeping it clean by making sure no water can enter thru a bad oring on a deck fill is the best way to prevent fuel related problems. I've seen many boaters try to save a few bucks by fueling with cans at the dock, pouring thru a dirty funnel that last had antifreeze or something else thru it. Keeping a clean fuel system is easier & cheaper than cleaning up one that's been contaminated.
__________________

__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 05:35 AM   #23
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
"Isn't " polishing only " the same as putting the cart in front of the horse if you don't also clean the tanks ?"

Polishing is really easy to do so when the boat gets towed at least the owner can claim he tried.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 06:58 AM   #24
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by River Cruiser View Post
Rick Bs picture looks like a tank that has several loads of contaminated fuel & a dose of water.
All it takes is a single dose of contaminated fuel. Bacteria reproduce quickly.

That tank has a bit more water than "normal" in it because we put some soapy water and a man with a flashlight in it and pulled a slight vacuum to look for leaks. You can see a small area of fine bubbles in the upper right corner of the photo where there is hairline crack.

The junk you see is the result of bacteria colonies creating little islands of corrosion. The amount of water found in the tank was actually quite small and was never a problem otherwise.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
I use a small 12 volt automotive style fuel pump It is quiet and does about 35 gallons per hour. The pump cost about 25 bucks and should last a very long time. The money you save buy bigger filters.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 09:04 AM   #26
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by funangler View Post
The money you save buy bigger filters.
Why not just buy bigger filters to begin with and forget the silly "polishing" idea along with the plumbing, pumps, and wiring?

If you clean your tanks properly every couple of years, religiously use a biocide (alternate types to prevent breeding biocide resistant bacteria) and use adequate size primary filters to remove the skeletons you will be money ahead and happier with the results.

If you install a low point drain or pickup you can check for and remove any water before it causes a problem. Think about a stiff nylon tube snaked down through a vent fitting to the low corner of the tank ... siphon or use a squeeze bulb to remove loose water.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 09:20 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
City: Hong Kong
Country: Hong Kong
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 210
its a novel idea to just use bigger filters but they might still clogg - Murpheys Law.

I only have 1 engine so if on the big blue or in a narrow inlet, then prevention is alfa omega.....in my case: Alfa Laval MIB303 for the polishing, 2 sets of Fleetguard heavy duty filters (switchable while engine is running) in the delivery line + the normal 2 micron filter on the engine. AND use biocide + fuel stabilizers.

On top of that: dual engine oil filters + engine oil bypass filtration and coolant bypass filtration.

Prevention is the best way and will most likely save money in the long run.
Searios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 10:35 AM   #28
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Searios View Post
its a novel idea to just use bigger filters but they might still clogg ...
Not many toyboat owners install centrifuges, nor do they need to or should they. A pair of large filters will suffice for 99.999997 percent of the readers of this forum.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 11:18 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
City: Hong Kong
Country: Hong Kong
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 210
Why do you focus on the Alfa Laval....you missed the point.

The point is that clean fuel will save the day.

It doesn't matter how a boat owner ensure clean fuel.

In Asia clean fuel is something we dream about, there is no Coastguard to sort out "issues", there is no friendly country to trust, there is no West Marine shop to sort out spare parts, there is no qualified marine shop to fix you. There are no marinas to seek shelter in.....there are hardly any one that understand english.

In other words: clean fuel, clean oil and clean coolant is much more important compared to your world.....

I know that I'm going into the extreme (like most Nordhavens and many Selenes), but that's how I feel safe with one engine. I use it for polishing.

For transfer I can use both the Alfa Laval and the Reverso.
I agree with large filters in your part of the world - but not here.
Searios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #30
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
Not many toyboat owners install centrifuges, nor do they need to or should they. A pair of large filters will suffice for 99.999997 percent of the readers of this forum.

Spoken like a fellow whose job it was to clean the filters.

Far better to toss the owners filters in the trash, than get dirty.

The biggest advantages I can see besides clean fuel ,

is in pango pango you don't need to try to purchase another case or two and have them flown in..
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 05:03 PM   #31
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
There are very few boats I have anything to do with that don't have at least one centrifuge installed in the fuel system plus a substantial filter system.

Changing filters is never the easy solution for an engineer or operator nor does it have to be a dirty job.

A pair of large filters will suffice for 99.999997 percent of the readers of this forum. Stop thinking your boat's fuel system is like that of a compact car that gets fueled at the local self-service so doesn't require any preventive attention, or as if it is a containership that burns heavy fuel oil and requires constant centrifuging to remove gravel, cat fines, and gallons of water. It is somewhere in between, clean your tanks, pay attention to fuel quality and don't scrimp on filter size or quality.

It doesn't matter if someone dumped a sandbag into your fuel tank and flushed it down with a hundred gallons of water, regular tank cleaning, biocide treatment, water removal, and proper filtration before use will eliminate nearly all fuel problems.

The price of even a tiny little plastic centrifuge will buy enough filters to allow the average boat owned by the readers here to circle the globe several times. Besides that, almost anyone can figure out how to change a filter, wanna see something funny and sad, watch someone do an annual or semi-annual cleaning of their centrifuge.

And it's probably easier to find fuel filters in "Pango Pango" than many other places that have pristine fuel going into pristine tanks. Besides, how many readers here are taking their 40' sundeck trawler to Samoa?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 06:04 PM   #32
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
Here's the inside of a 350 gallon tank that was cleaned 5 years ago. We never had any water in the Racors and we use a biocide regularly. In 15000 plus miles the engine never failed or stopped because cause of the fuel which gets turned over ~twice per year. Regular tank cleaning, sign me up .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	008 1.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	94.1 KB
ID:	20599  
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 02:43 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
City: Hong Kong
Country: Hong Kong
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post

Spoken like a fellow whose job it was to clean the filters.

Far better to toss the owners filters in the trash, than get dirty.
The centrifuge still has to be cleaned - and that can be a dirty job too. The sludge also has to be discarded somewhere...

Anyway - there are many other fuel transfer pumps available - just watch out for the ratings, some of them are only rated for 30 mins while others are rated as medium or heavy duty.
Searios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 06:23 AM   #34
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
While the patches and "solutions"can be varied in terms of price and work , the simple truth is if the boat had a proper fuel tank , instead of a box of fuel most all the fuel hassles would be solved , before they begin.

A proper tank is a SYSTEM that strains the fuel and has a sump for removing the inevitable water with ease.

Sadly it might cost the builder $100 per tank , so don't look for it in price point boats.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 08:57 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Baggiolini's Avatar
 
City: Monterey, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mahalo
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 398
Two things:

Earlier I was complaining about my Walbro pump banging like a jack hammer. I sent an email to customer service asking about it and nearly immediately got a reply suggesting that it is pumping too much fuel and I needed to restrict the flow a bit. I'll try his suggestion this weekend. Outstanding customer service.

Secondly, I understand that under most circumstances fuel polishing is of little value, I was concerned about the possibility of water on the bottom of the tank. Tanks are 25 years old and I figure over all those years there has to be a bit of water on the bottom rusting away. As the pick up is 1-2 inches off the bottom, that water is never going to come out without my bottom sucking pump. Having said that, there was a bit of water down there but just a bit.
Baggiolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 11:56 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
City: Hong Kong
Country: Hong Kong
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 210
How about the Groco, 3G/min, good reputation, gear pump, cheaper than the Reverso GP312.
Here is a link: GROCO 3gpm Reversing Gear Pump - 3/8" at West Marine
Searios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 05:51 AM   #37
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
What no one has discussed so far is pre-filtering the fuel , before it is dumped in the fuel box.

Sure a Baja filter is grand , but far too slow for a big tank , and a couple of hundred gal per side fill.

Perhaps a Raycor 1000 with hose clamps for the fill nozzle would work , IF one could do it with out spilling a drop , and having the Sheen Police chopper in.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012