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Old 09-24-2015, 08:25 AM   #1
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Thrust bearing problems lagoon power 43

Hi,
I am experiencing some difficulties with the thrust bearings on my lagoon power 43. As I understand it, these take the thrust from the props which enables softer engine mounts to be used on the Volvo KAMD 44's (265 hp). We recently engaged a marine engineer to replace the vetus shaft seals as these were leaking. This required the shafts to be drawn. Unfortunately, now we have a problem with the thrust bearings overheating (105 C at 3000 rpm engine speed or 1500 rpm shaft speed). The company undertaking the work have struggled to find the data required to re-fix the shaft through the thrust bearing. Specifically, there is no information on the required torque of the bearings, axial floats or the normal operating temperatures for this type of thrust bearing. Also no manufacturers name can be found on the thrust bearing/block.
To date the engineer has charged me close to a five figure sum and now advises that the system supplied on this lagoon boat is very unusual, not fit for purpose and should be changed for a traditional shaft, flexible coupling and stuffing box arrangement.
Can anyone out there offer any advice?
Regards
mike
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:03 AM   #2
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If it worked befor your "engineer" worked on it, its probly a problem with your engineer. I'd find someone that knows what they're doing.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:21 AM   #3
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Post your question on boatdiesel. You have a rather unique installation and maybe there are experts who can help or steer you to someone in your area who can.

David
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:30 AM   #4
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Mike: Any pics of this arrangement? I'm having trouble picturing this sort of arrangement in a Lagoon hull. I've seen complete Aquadrive units installed in that space. I take it that the bearing is the tilt type? Considering all the elements that would raise the temp of the bearing, it's hard to figure any of those without seeing the installation. If the bearings were too small for the center-line surface velocities, didn't have enough lube or cooling air, etc. etc., it should be calculable. 105C is not intolerable for most thrust bearings. 130 is a typical recommended max and the bearing metal won't creep much till 160 or so. Adding cooling fins or even just a stream of air can drop it 10 degrees.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:43 PM   #5
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Photo of shaft seal, thrust bearing and UJ

Thanks for all your input. I attach a photo showing the configuration. As can be seen from the photo the prop shaft goes through the vetus drip less seals to the thrust bearing which is then coupled to the engine prop shaft via a universal joint.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:04 PM   #6
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Photo

Sorry, i failed in my attempt to add a photo, hopefully this time it has worked
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Old 09-24-2015, 04:50 PM   #7
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I know this sounds too obvious, but can't Lagoon help? They were very proud of that model and the designer and naval architect's names are listed on their website under that model. Someone should know the manufacturer of that bearing, French no doubt from your boatdiesel pdf.

If you can find the manufacturer, then they should be able to provide the info you are seeking.

David
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:15 AM   #8
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Thrust bearing

David,
I have tried lagoon, so far to no avail, they gave a terse e-mail saying spares were available through their UK distributors (who I have also tried without success to date)
Mike
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:05 AM   #9
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Aquadrive - How It Works

Aquadrive - How It Works


Instead, the propeller shaft is aligned to an Aquadrive® thrust bearing which absorbs all the propeller thrust and stabilizes the alignment. CV-joint shafts transmit ...

I would contact these fols , they have great experience with your style setup.

It is today unusual to not use a CV joint instead of a truck universal that seems to be installed.

We have used their gear with total success in the past , and they have been very helpful.
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:10 AM   #10
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It would seem to me that the only way for the thrust bearing to overheat after shaft re-install is alignment.
With a thrust bearing installation the propeller shaft alignment must be precise as the only movement is rotational, no engine vibration to account for.
On the other side of the thrust bearing, just the opposite is the rule. With a CV joint you need the same amount of misalignment at both ends of the cardan shaft, more than zero and less than 5 degree's is ideal. This installation has U joints, and I believe the same rules apply. Alignment isn't as important as the range of mis-alignment.

Have your peeps check the prop shaft alignment, it's the only thing that should have changed that would cause the thrust bearing to overheat, given the scope of work you have described.

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Old 09-26-2015, 11:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike field View Post
Hi,
I am experiencing some difficulties with the thrust bearings on my lagoon power 43. As I understand it, these take the thrust from the props which enables softer engine mounts to be used on the Volvo KAMD 44's (265 hp). We recently engaged a marine engineer to replace the vetus shaft seals as these were leaking. This required the shafts to be drawn. Unfortunately, now we have a problem with the thrust bearings overheating (105 C at 3000 rpm engine speed or 1500 rpm shaft speed). The company undertaking the work have struggled to find the data required to re-fix the shaft through the thrust bearing. Specifically, there is no information on the required torque of the bearings, axial floats or the normal operating temperatures for this type of thrust bearing. Also no manufacturers name can be found on the thrust bearing/block.
To date the engineer has charged me close to a five figure sum and now advises that the system supplied on this lagoon boat is very unusual, not fit for purpose and should be changed for a traditional shaft, flexible coupling and stuffing box arrangement.
Can anyone out there offer any advice?
Regards
mike
Mike

What problems are you having after shaft re-install? Can Lagoon specify bolts and torque range? Engineer and or mechanic with appropriate skill set should be able to figure it out. It appears there is a zerk fitting but no signs of grease? And yes, try another yard with good reputation.

Sorry, just questions likely no different than others.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:37 PM   #12
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All roller and ball bearing containing devices have proprietary pieces and off the shelf bearings. There is always an industry size number on the bearing case.
I have never see a bearing made by the maker of the device. If you take it apart and find the bearing rough it is usually easy to replace.


Bearing shops exist in every city in the US and I don't expect the UK to be different. Do a web search and find shops in your area.
Even the bearings in my TR6 transmission I rebuilt were available in a bearing shop at much less cost than from TR. []
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:52 PM   #13
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Mike:

I concur with Keysdisease that the alignment must be the issue if the bearing is heating more than before the work you had done. As stated, they do need an angle to work. Bumping the angle a degree or two shouldn't be an issue and a quick sea-trial should tell the tale. Question is, do you know for sure that the bearing is heating more now than before the work.
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:38 AM   #14
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To be cleat , the thrust bearing must be lined up,mounted 90 deg to the shaft

After the thrust bearing,the flex portion will need a bit of angle to properly be lubed.
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:04 AM   #15
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Thrust bearing issues

Once again, thanks for all the advice,
Sadly I can't seem to get the technical data from Lagoon. I am told the engineers have checked the alignment. The bearing is correctly greased. I do know for sure that it is running hotter than last time the seals were replaced in 2008 as I have temperature data from then (85C at 3,800 compared to the current 105C at 3000 -engine rpm).
I will double check the alignment issue, if this doesn't work, I could remove the thrust block and extract the bearings (the bearings will be very easy for me to get), at least then I could get some data from the bearing manufacturers.
Regards
Mike
PS always wanted a TR6 but could only afford a Triumph Herald drop head coupe
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