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Old 01-24-2015, 02:10 PM   #21
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My small (37hp) Mitsu smokes at startup so little you've got to look hard to see it. And only for a minute or so. No amount of throttle will produce smoke when warm. The engine is a 3000rpm engine propped to 3050.
Same here, no smoke when warm at any speed, including WOT. This is a 3800rpm engine and is propped to 3900 with a clean bottom and half load.

BTW, according to Laborde Products, the Yanmar distributor for the Gulf Coast: "Use white vinegar 3:1 with water to clean the raw-water side of HE. Let it circulate for 4-6 hours. It is gentle and effective."
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Old 01-24-2015, 04:53 PM   #22
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One of the biggest killers of marine engines is corrosion from deck hatch drips or even condensation. In my area, we get warm fronts after cold fronts, and engines chilled in the cold sweat like a cold beer when a warm front comes in. That sweat will cause a lot of damage over time. Hatch drips are self explanatory, and are often salt water, even worse.

Block heaters solve the condensation problem, but running all the time is expensive and wasteful.

Block heaters are often sized for starting engines in arctic conditions, and are overkill for this purpose. Only a couple hundred watts will keep block above dewpoint, which does the trick.

On my personal boat, when a warm front is expected, I go down and crank the engine and gen to warm them up. Then no condensation when the warm damp air arrives.

Not sure if you west coasters have the same issues.

Keep them dry!!!
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:37 AM   #23
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The bad corrosion is inside the cylinders when the go thru the same climate hassle .

Engine fogging as well as sealing the intake and exhaust as done on winter layup would work , but are a PIA.

I have often thought a fogging setup could be push button before shutdown with a bit of inventiveness.

Just tell your dock mates its mosquito control.

Advantage gas engines , the choke and throttle plate keep much of the breeze from blowing thru the engine 24/7
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:12 PM   #24
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We just sold our sailboat that has a Yanmar 4JH4E 54 hp diesel. It was a 2005 with 3700 hours when we sold it last November. The engine ran really well for us. The only frustrating issue I had was a rising operating temperature reading over time. The short version is that the fresh water/antifreeze side of the cooling core had a "Clay" like build up on the cooling rods which insulated the heat transfer. The remedy was to use a NAPA brand radiator flush. After following the instructions the coolant came out looking like coffee. After that I could run at WOT, 3200 for this engine, and the temp would sit at 178 degrees just like when she was new.
The only caution I would give is the exhaust elbow. Ours was not stainless steel but rather the more expensive cast elbow. When the boat sat for a month or more we always flushed the raw water side with fresh water for five minutes and then shut the engine down. Even with the flushing we found that we needed to change out the exhaust elbow at 1400 hours or the corrosion would be thru the interior sleeve.
Yanmar recommends changing oil every 200 hours. We changed ours every 100. Oil is cheap.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:36 PM   #25
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We just sold our sailboat that has a Yanmar 4JH4E 54 hp diesel. It was a 2005 with 3700 hours when we sold it last.
The only caution I would give is the exhaust elbow. Ours was not stainless steel but rather the more expensive cast elbow.... Even with the flushing we found that we needed to change out the exhaust elbow at 1400 hours or the corrosion would be thru the interior sleeve.
That may in fact be a reasonable life. My insurer wants elbows removed and inspected every 5 years, I guess that has to come from experience. How old were yours @1400 hours? Maybe your careful maintenance extended its life.
I`d have hoped ss would last longer than cast iron, and expected it to cost more. I looked at getting them made in ss (for Ford Lehmans), it was much cheaper importing cast replacements.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:59 PM   #26
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Larry M- Could you expound more on the use of vinegar? How do you circulate and recover in a "Raw Water" application? My raw water ex's out the exbaust. It would seem more productive to be cleaning out the closed system. Wrong?

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Old 02-12-2015, 12:19 AM   #27
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Larry M- Could you expound more on the use of vinegar? How do you circulate and recover in a "Raw Water" application? My raw water ex's out the exbaust. It would seem more productive to be cleaning out the closed system. Wrong?

Thanks,
Al
Al,

It is pretty easy and works on almost any size fresh-water cooled marine engine. I use a 5 gal plastic pail and a Jabsco Water Puppy pump. The pump has standard male hose connections on the inlet and outlet so you can use garden hose and plastic hose reducers/couplers to make the connections to the engine hoses. If also changing the raw water impeller, first close the seacock, remove the impeller and replace the cover. That way, you can make one connection on the seacock side of the water strainer. The other connection is to the heat exchanger outlet to the mixer elbow. Drain the raw water system using the pump or gravity. Next fill the plastic pail with vinegar or flushing solution and use the pump occasionally to circulate the mixture through the system. Start by back-flushing to remove any loose materials from the heat exchanger. Half way through the process, reverse the hoses and circulate in the original flow direction. Finally flush with fresh water using a regular water hose. You should now have a clean water strainer, raw water pump housing and heat exchanger. Reconnect the original hoses and don't forget to replace the impeller and open the seacock before starting the engine. If you are not replacing the impeller, make the flush connection directly to the inlet side of the heat exchanger. You can use the same rig and method to flush A/C coils too.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:40 AM   #28
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Even engines with glow plugs will smoke a bit at start up.

A compression ignition diesel will smoke from poor or incomplete combustion caused by the cool engine.

The inside of the combustion chamber , head , piston and cylinder temperatures cause the fuel sprayed in as tiny dropplets by the injector to vaporise , then ignite.

Untill all this metal gets to a minimum temperature , some smoke is to be expected.

On old engines where compression is suspect , watching the coolant temperature to see a when the exhaust is clear will give an estimate on how shot the engine is.

If it still smokes at 180F , beware!
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:25 AM   #29
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Larry M- It would seem more productive to be cleaning out the closed system. Wrong?

Thanks,
Al
Al,

Both the closed and raw water side of the system must be clean in order for the engine to be properly cooled. Over the years, I have found the raw water side requires more maintenance for a variety of reasons.

As for the closed system, if it is clean and the coolant has been changed regularly, annually in the case of Yanmars, they don't seem to require much additional cleaning. If, however, there has been neglect or changing of coolant types, and you find a build up of scale or deposits that prevent normal heat transfer, you will want to use a flushing/cleaning agent and re-fill with the proper coolant. You can use Prestone radiator flush which is safe for mixed metallurgy cooling systems, or use a professional two-part product. Once clean, they only need to be drained, flushed with clear water and re-filled with the correct coolant. Yanmar Technical Bulletin MSB 02-051 has the guidelines for the coolant and change interval.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:15 PM   #30
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Thanks Larry.

The inquiry was made in the vain of all of my many years owning and operating boats the question or need to address the raw water system revolved around clogged elbow and most of those were raw water cooling engines. Yes, closed system with raw water for gear and exhaust also suffered clogging it just seems more on gasoline engines in the fleet,than diesel. Not so much conversation among owners of diesel power.
Why that is maybe relevant to your solution and explanation. I wonder- would the condition of the local waters have an effect on the systems requiring more attention say in Texas over the cooler waters of Alaska?
That is presented on the basis of having never paid any serious attention other than rare changing out said exhaust elbows and replace impellers.
On the closed side, flushing is more of a common event but not something done on an annual basis more on a awareness of a coming failure. This at least is my knowledge among the boaters known to myself.

Interesting process Larry and not something to look forward to having to do, rather a "Damn! Time to flush" chore.

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Old 02-12-2015, 01:44 PM   #31
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You asked the time period when we had the 1400 hours on our engine. I was at about 5 1/2 years. So your insurance company is pretty close to the mark. NOT changing the elbow in time can cause bent valves and other not nice things to happen to your diesel.
I should note that a mechanic was surprised at how much "Clay" coated the antifreeze side of our heat exchanger. He said that it was possible that upon commissioning the engine was filled with the specified amount of antifreeze concentrate and then topped off with distiller water. Leaving the engine circulating system to mix it. He said this was a No-No because the antifreeze concentrate would "Scale" onto the cooling tubes as the engine heated up and before the fresh water side was properly mixed. Mixing antifreeze and water prior to dumping it into your engine was the proper procedure.
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:14 AM   #32
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You are doing fine LarryM!
I'd add the valve adjustment too but I'm a little strange...
One note, the exhaust riser used is difficult to inspect if you do not look carefully. You have to look way up at the top where the water is injected to see where the blockage happens. I pull it off and look up into the side that connects to the hose. What you will find is that the hole the exhaust must go through becomes smaller and smaller in time. This can and does lead to a change in exhaust tone and eventually more and more black smoke! Ask me how I know...
Anyway, it is easy to see if you get it out of there for an inspection.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:18 AM   #33
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Larry,
When I repowered I bought ($750) an all SS high rise unit and 10 years later (now) i'm glad I did. I had a 3HM35F in an Albin and replaced several over a period of 6 years.
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