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02-06-2013, 10:39 PM
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#41
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Guru
City: Cowichan Bay, BC
Vessel Name: Gray Hawk
Vessel Model: Defever 43 Offshore Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1
Where is a reputable place to get an oil analysis done?
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Any Cat or Detroit service center will have a sample kit.
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02-06-2013, 10:40 PM
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#42
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Guru
City: UMR MM283
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
I believe the theory is that having been run through the engine, some contaminants have been burned off, then the dirty oil is subjected to centrifugal separation and filtration that makes it cleaner than original.
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My Hinos have centrifugal filters, I clean them every other oil change. The housing will have 1/8" - 3/16" of carbon caked to them. The oil stays clean looking on the dipstick way longer than other diesels I've worked on.
__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
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02-06-2013, 10:56 PM
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#43
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Guru
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
But an oil analysis every now and then on a few hundred hour per year (at most) toy boat engine is not as important as how the real things have been taken care of to prevent the oil from showing baddies. ......................
Oh, Tony Athens you say..................................
Part of his comment is, "put a random oil analysis where it belongs - at the bottom of the list of things to worry about."
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For crying out loud! We're operating toy boats! These are not Euclid Earth Movers that operate around the clock.....change your oil and filters frequently and be done with it.
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
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02-06-2013, 10:57 PM
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#44
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Marin I'm taking out dirty oil. 90% of it. But who knows there may be more old oil laying in puddleing spots in your engine than in my filter. You may think your's jolly correct as you do what your'e instructed to do but your oil may be more dirty than mine. I'm actually quite sure of it.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-06-2013, 10:59 PM
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#45
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Walt is it too slipery for you?
Just go read another thread if you doint like oil.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-06-2013, 11:04 PM
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#46
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Guru
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
Walt is it too slipery for you?
Just go read another thread if you doint like oil.
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Sure, Eric....I'll get right on it.
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
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02-06-2013, 11:10 PM
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#47
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
....but your oil may be more dirty than mine. I'm actually quite sure of it.
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And why would that be? I put 12 quarts in and when I change it I take 12 quarts out. I know this because I dump the old oil from the pump-out bucket into the empty gallon containers that the new oil came in. And the system I use to pump out the old oil goes to the lowest spot in the sump. If I pump the old oil out and then remove the sump drain plug, nothing comes out but a few drips.
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02-06-2013, 11:16 PM
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#48
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Guru
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1
Where is a reputable place to get an oil analysis done?
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I get mine from American Diesel. Prepaid and not expensive. Plus they get a copy of the analysis and take a look as well, and will give you a call if they spot something that needs attention.
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02-06-2013, 11:27 PM
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#49
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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What if I give you the last word Marin?.
I'm fast getting to where Walt is.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-07-2013, 05:18 AM
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#50
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Scraping Paint
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1
Where is a reputable place to get an oil analysis done?
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Any CAT or DD dealer. Most any heavy equipment or trucking sales or service company or a major fuel and lube distributor.
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02-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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#51
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TF Site Team/Forum Founder
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Cruiser
The oil stays clean looking on the dipstick way longer than other diesels I've worked on.
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Be careful!!! The fact that it is "clean looking" may actually be bad. I bought a sailboat from a fellow. It had a diesel and it would be the first diesel that I had owned and cared for. I realized that the previous owner used a non-diesel rated oil...just your everyday Pennzoil that you would run in your car. That oil looked clean(on the dipstick) ALL the time. After doing a bit of research I realized that the oil was not the proper oil to be running in a diesel and changed to a proper oil. Guess what??? My oil no longer "looked clean on the dipstick"!!! Why??? Because the oil was doing it's job of removing the contaminants(suspending them) endemic to diesel engines.
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02-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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#52
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker
Be careful!!! The fact that it is "clean looking" may actually be bad. I bought a sailboat from a fellow. It had a diesel and it would be the first diesel that I had owned and cared for. I realized that the previous owner used a non-diesel rated oil...just your everyday Pennzoil that you would run in your car. That oil looked clean(on the dipstick) ALL the time. After doing a bit of research I realized that the oil was not the proper oil to be running in a diesel and changed to a proper oil. Guess what??? My oil no longer "looked clean on the dipstick"!!! Why??? Because the oil was doing it's job of removing the contaminants(suspending them) endemic to diesel engines.
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Good point. We have a Puradyn bypass filter with a 1 micron filter and the oil is still black even though the bypass clearly has the oil passing through it. The reason is because particles of carbon smaller than 1 micron are still sufficient to blacken the oil, but can't cause wear because they are smaller than the machine tolerances of the motor. You can't tell anything about the utility or condition of the oil from its color, other than it is or is not brand new.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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#53
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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So there's bad carbon and goo or harmless carbon. Kinda like cholesterol huh?
I'll bet it still cases engine wear.
Sixty grit and 800 grit still works as an abrasive.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-07-2013, 01:21 PM
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#54
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
So there's bad carbon and goo or harmless carbon. Kinda like cholesterol huh?
I'll bet it still cases engine wear.
Sixty grit and 800 grit still works as an abrasive.
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Unless it never comes into contact with something to abrade. Kind of like a 1 micron abrasive particle suspended between two contact points 3 microns apart.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-07-2013, 05:05 PM
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#55
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
Unless it never comes into contact with something to abrade. Kind of like a 1 micron abrasive particle suspended between two contact points 3 microns apart.
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Be careful of higher math around here...
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02-07-2013, 05:19 PM
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#56
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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I'm a bit familiar with the hardness scale. How can a soft soot (C) particle abrade a hard engine alloy?
I'd always thought removing soot and other particles with the filters is to insure that lubricating oil passages, rings and bearings remain free and clear and oil doesn't become too viscous due to the trash buildup.
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02-07-2013, 06:32 PM
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#57
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Tom I'm w you on the later but I thought carbon was hard as in high carbon steel. I think the "soot" and carbon are both black.
Delfin how's the one micron particle know to stay in the "middle"? And the two contact points would be carbon, soot or marbles?
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-07-2013, 09:25 PM
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#58
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
I'm a bit familiar with the hardness scale. How can a soft soot (C) particle abrade a hard engine alloy?
I'd always thought removing soot and other particles with the filters is to insure that lubricating oil passages, rings and bearings remain free and clear and oil doesn't become too viscous due to the trash buildup.
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Soot by itself can't cause wear since as you note, it is softer than the steel. My understanding is the same as yours - that the harm is caused not by individual particles, which are tiny, but by their agglomeration into particles large enough to inhibit oil flow between wear surfaces. The additive package in the oil is supposed to keep the agglomeration from getting out of hand.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-07-2013, 09:53 PM
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#59
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
Tom I'm w you on the later but I thought carbon was hard as in high carbon steel. I think the "soot" and carbon are both black.
Delfin how's the one micron particle know to stay in the "middle"? And the two contact points would be carbon, soot or marbles?
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Is that a serious question?
The contact points would be bearing races, shafts, rings, cylinder walls etc., which as far as I know are not made out of marbles.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-08-2013, 12:20 AM
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#60
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Guru
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
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Let's see...1 micron would equate to about a 1200 grit abrasive, with an average particle size of about 0.00005". Now what are those bearing clearances again?
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