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Old 05-18-2017, 06:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by kchace View Post
They recommend Dexron III.
They also recommend a variety of oils....such as 30Wt like I run and so does the assistance towboat fleet I work for.

Those boats stress the trannies WAY more than most of us ever do and those trannies last decades.

As long as they are relatively slow turning and the oil doesn't foam....they are suitable lubrication.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:33 AM   #22
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I use Dextron III in both my 71c BW vd trany. Works well, stays clean.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:11 AM   #23
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Stick to what has been working well.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:15 AM   #24
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When in forward, everything is locked so the only friction is in the bearings and the assemblies spinning within the oil. My personal concern would be compatibility with the clutch material. Newer transmissions may use a completely different type of material - older type materials may or may not be compatible with newer/synthetic oils.

Ken
Baloney. Read the label. If it meets SAE standards, which it will, it's good to use.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:17 AM   #25
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I have heard that synthetic oil in gears can cause clutch slippage precisely because the oil is slipperier. I think that was with motor oil, but I would have the same concert with ATF.

Perhaps call BW and see what they say?
Baloney. Urban legend.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:19 AM   #26
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The book for your installation says--- ?

Where synthetics really shine is in boats that have a coolant cooled high engine speed gear reducer - transmission with temperatures approaching engine temps. In raw water cooled (mine run below 115F in the PNW) transmissions slow RPM and cooler running transmissions the advantage if any would be hard to quantify, possibly injurious as suggested by kchace.
You had me until you said "possibly injurious". Based on what? All lubricants carry SAE ratings and standards.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:22 AM   #27
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You had me until you said "possibly injurious". Based on what? All lubricants carry SAE ratings and standards.
Boat gear reducers have a few areas where the wrong fluids can prove injurious. Think seals, anti foam, pumps, plates and lubricity. As you correctly state, following the gear manufacturers guidelines for lubricants will prevent possible injury from occurring.

The OP will be well served by following these guidelines. Why mess up a good thing? BTW, baloney on the Internet- never happens.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:31 AM   #28
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Many people have the need (seemingly on a par w sexual needs) to use and otherwise align themselves w whatever is new. Many of the new things are or will come to pass as fads and many will be a youthful new and better way of doing things.

Most people get on all the new bandwagons w/o even thinking if it's a good idea. Usually just a knee jerk resopnse to anything considered new. Ever heard the expression "in w the new, out w the old"? It's a psychological need to do the mod things. Anybody who dosn't is some kind of nerd, dufus or just plain dumb person. And of course nobody wants to be seen as dumb or behind the times.

But if there's no need or advantage to new stuff old stuff is not only fine but in many cases better. But on a "feel good" basis most like to go w the new. However there are people that actually think for themselves. Using synthetic lube in a cool running marine gear that uses friction clutches is one of instances where the knee jerk get on the new bandwagon move is not good.

However if a manufacturer recommends it (the new stuff) it's probably fine. I say just probably fine because at times manufacturers recomendations don't cover or consider all circumstances. But to make new things good there must be some real benefit.

Didn't edit.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:06 PM   #29
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My engineer co-workers who dealt with bearings did not like applications that used tranny fluid. It did not lubricate very well thus reduced life.
That was my motivation in addition to velvet drive spacing motor oil as an alternative in applications that were 2600 rpm or less.
My tranny is happy.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:24 PM   #30
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My engineer co-workers who dealt with bearings did not like applications that used tranny fluid. It did not lubricate very well thus reduced life.
That was my motivation in addition to velvet drive spacing motor oil as an alternative in applications that were 2600 rpm or less.
My tranny is happy.
What do your engineer co-workers say to use for trany fluid regarding over 2600 rpm... like 3600 rpm?

I take it you are referring to engine rpm, not drive shaft rpm due to trany reduction.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:58 AM   #31
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Tranny fluid has anti foam roperties which you need in theses trannys over 2600 rpm.
That is input rpm as in engine rpm.
That is from BW.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:15 AM   #32
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I belive the anti-foaming additive is the primary reasom to use trans oil.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:21 AM   #33
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True on the anti foaming, but the assistance boats I run with BW transmissions all get the hell beat out of them.

They are coupled to 454 gas engines that run well up over 3600 RPM and run on straight 30 weight...and have for decades.

So like many oil threads....maybe a lot less is critical than what many posters think.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:38 AM   #34
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True on the anti foaming, but the assistance boats I run with BW transmissions all get the hell beat out of them.

They are coupled to 454 gas engines that run well up over 3600 RPM and run on straight 30 weight...and have for decades.

So like many oil threads....maybe a lot less is critical than what many posters think.
I find it interesting that two substantially different fluid compounds [i.e. motor oil and transmission fluid] run neck n' neck in experienced boater's opinions for working best in BW VD marine transmissions.

From what I understand the most recommended fluid for BW VD trany [back in the day] was a Ford trany fluid, I forget the number affixed to it.

Talking with my decades trusted transmission rebuilder as well as some knowledgeable marine mechanics and from learning [readings] in forums I have stuck with Dextron III. Sure stays clean looking and our two BW VD tranys work well.

I just don't understand how very slippery [and I believe somewhat compressible, lubrication prone] motor oil in contrast to not so slippery [and I believe not at all compressible, hydraulic prone] trany fluid can each perform as well as so many say in the same transmissions.

Am I missing something here??

Cheers!
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:10 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Art View Post
I find it interesting that two substantially different fluid compounds [i.e. motor oil and transmission fluid] run neck n' neck in experienced boater's opinions for working best in BW VD marine transmissions.

From what I understand the most recommended fluid for BW VD trany [back in the day] was a Ford trany fluid, I forget the number affixed to it.

Talking with my decades trusted transmission rebuilder as well as some knowledgeable marine mechanics and from learning [readings] in forums I have stuck with Dextron III. Sure stays clean looking and our two BW VD tranys work well.

I just don't understand how very slippery [and I believe somewhat compressible, lubrication prone] motor oil in contrast to not so slippery [and I believe not at all compressible, hydraulic prone] trany fluid can each perform as well as so many say in the same transmissions.

Am I missing something here??

Cheers!
I rebuilt one of mine years ago, and they are very simple inside unlike a car trans with lots of electronic solenoids and switches. Basically gears, an oil pump and a set of clutch plates. I had a leak from rust forming on cast iron, which distorted a large square O-ring, none of the internals was anything but great looking. Trans is OEM from 1970, figure out why nothing was wrong, because they work a long time.

High heats destroy ATF fluids and oils, seals, clutches, and these boat trans don't get that hot, unless in a humongous HP app. So the oils stay clean looking.

One fault is most have to spin with engine rotation and can not reverse rotation the prop continually. Another is they have lower torque-hp limits with diesels since the diesel slams the pistons harder on combustion than gas.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Art View Post
I find it interesting that two substantially different fluid compounds [i.e. motor oil and transmission fluid] run neck n' neck in experienced boater's opinions for working best in BW VD marine transmissions.

From what I understand the most recommended fluid for BW VD trany [back in the day] was a Ford trany fluid, I forget the number affixed to it.

Talking with my decades trusted transmission rebuilder as well as some knowledgeable marine mechanics and from learning [readings] in forums I have stuck with Dextron III. Sure stays clean looking and our two BW VD tranys work well.

I just don't understand how very slippery [and I believe somewhat compressible, lubrication prone] motor oil in contrast to not so slippery [and I believe not at all compressible, hydraulic prone] trany fluid can each perform as well as so many say in the same transmissions.

Am I missing something here??

Cheers!
Yep....missing something.

Probably flyshi* to the transmission either way.

Maybe the disbelief that oil works is the slow mindset since the coming of auto transmissions.

I am no tranny guy....but my experts, including my Borg Warner manual says motor oil is just fine. Mine stays clean for years until change.

If oil works fine in the engine components...why wouldn't it work just fine in a low tech tranny? Maybe better.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:30 AM   #37
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Yep....missing something.

Probably flyshi* to the transmission either way.

Maybe the disbelief that oil works is the slow mindset since the coming of auto transmissions.

I am no tranny guy....but my experts, including my Borg Warner manual says motor oil is just fine. Mine stays clean for years until change.

If oil works fine in the engine components...why wouldn't it work just fine in a low tech tranny? Maybe better.
I don't know... that's why my question.

Guess I'm confusing what happens inside marine trans, such as a 1977 OEM BW VD and an auto trany, such as OEM in a 1960's muscle car or even a 1980's HD 1 Ton pick up truck. I know a bit about those vehicles transmission internals.

If I put motor oil in my 1967 Buick Wildcat auto trany that would not at all work... I'd be looking for a replacement!

As you can probably tell, I'm not well versed on marine trany internals. My decades in business trany shop takes care of all my tarns needs. Many years ago the owner was national trouble shooter for GM's main HQ. He designed some of the transmissions that made GM race cars fly on the race tracks and had a hand in designing transmissions [both auto and 4 spd standard] for late 1960's to mid 70's Chevrolet Corvettes.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:47 AM   #38
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Ever look at the inside of the "brain" that makes an auto tranny work?


Tiny parts that need very low viscosity fluid...


Plus, I am not sure about the rubber drive components in a velvet drive, but the planetary gears and drive band probably prefer oil over fluid, but not sure about how much friction the band to reverse gears needs to grab. The gears may prefer oil and the friction components may prefer trans fluid. As I said there may be an overlap that the tranny could care less about.


Anti foaming is important....but not sure why the assistance tower maintenance guy still used oil with 454 gassers. But sure can argue with his performance record. The way thse trannies got treated made recreational use look line non-use.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:02 AM   #39
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The enemy of good is better.................
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:31 AM   #40
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The enemy of good is better.................
I Like That Profoundly Simple Statement!!!

And... a big PIA when I at times keep trying to reach the word "Better"

Old saying: "Perfection can be strived for but seldom if ever attained".

Another way of looking at it: Closer you get to perfection [such as something like reaching speed of light] it gets more and more difficult due the ever increasing resistance-mass you'll encounter!

Sort of not to dissimilar to trying to get a full displacement hull up onto plane.
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