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Old 01-22-2016, 08:03 PM   #61
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If you don't like working on boats I would look at something else. Your kids may would rather use the boat right away than watch you work on it .
This statement may have been overlooked by many here, I don't know, but I think it's a very, very important one.

There are any number of reasons to acquire a cruising boat. Some people really like working on them. Repairing decks, refinishing wood, reupholstering interiors, painting, etc. are what they really like to do.

Some people like the challenge of preparing a boat for a specific goal--- a long voyage like the Great Loop, the entire west coast, trans-ocean, etc.

And some people simply want to start boating the moment they acquire a boat.

While it sounds like Greg's decision may have been made for him by the engine survey, I think the validity of Pack Mule's statement rings true for whatever boat he ends up contemplating.

In 1998 when we decided to buy a boat rather than continue chartering the broker we used found us a prospect in California. Alameda to be exact. We, with the broker, flew down to check out this 1973 boat and have its hull/systems and engines surveyed.

Because we knew nothing about cruising boats like this outside of our minimal charter experience, we paid the expenses for a good friend who's entire career has been with one of the more prestigious marine propulsion and generator manufacturers in the industry. He knows boats like this backwards and forwards and didn't care if we bought this particular boat or not. We wanted an objective set of eyes with us and there weren't any more qualified than his.

After the inspection, sea trial and surveys we had to make up our mind to buy the boat or not. Our friend delivered the statement that made our decision. I'm paraphrasing but he said, "This boat needs a lot of work, much of it cosmetic. But what's important is it's a boat that you can begin to use and enjoy as soon as you get it home. All the issues that need addressing can be taken on as you go. But you can start using the boat right away. You aren't buying something that you have to spend a ton of time and possibly money on before you can even start using it."

Given Greg's stated reasons for wanting a boat of this type it sounds like our friend's comment is equally applicable to his situation. With the desire to start cruising in a boat his family will enjoy while his kids are at an age to do so, it would seem that being immediately usable should be a top priority in determining if a boat is suitable or not.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:36 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by GregMitchell View Post
interesting development, seller said "i'll fix everything on the list, and cover the full cost". it's a long list. I know there is stuff that isn't on the list but if the engines (all 2), support systems, radar, autopilot, windlass all get full repairs, this might work.
This will hinge on what "fix" means. The engine with coolant in the oil could be a simple fix depending on the problem, or something major. The engine with supposedly bad rings isn't an easy fix, short of a rebuild or replacement. I would start with, "what is going to be done"? Take a positive approach; sit back and watch; retain your right at any point to walk away.

When the work is done, I would want to know exactly what was done to each engine. If you reach the point of satisfaction on the work, then do two 6+ hour seatrials followed by another round of oil analysis. Seatrials being, working the engines hard. While I'm not an expert on oil analysis, I know you need to have some hours on oil for it to show up problems in an oil analysis.

Finally, the engine with supposed ring wear problems worries me. Short of rebuilding or replacing that engine, I don't think I could be comfortable with it. As already mentioned, the oil analysis could be misleading, just don't know how you would regain confidence in that engine. Some might say that if it runs fine, their boating use will be local, and there is a price adjustment based on life expectancy, they would run it and see what happens. That's not how I operate.

Greg, best of luck; hope it turns out well for you!

Ted
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Old 01-23-2016, 03:22 AM   #63
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It does sound a bit like the seller has more money than sense, but hey, that's his/her problem. Sounds encouraging, as it is a nice boat, and deserves a good home.

Keep us posted.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:53 AM   #64
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Greg

You are getting conflicting advice from perfect strangers of unknown qualifications (me included) on this thread. Do you have anyone of known high capability with these specific engines assisting you on this? Until your answer is yes, be very careful.

Here is a test for the current owner. Best I understand the genset is toast. Is he willing to pay for the install of a brand new one if a factory rep rebuild of current unit is deemed by your newly on board "go to guy" as not cost effective?
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:44 PM   #65
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I'd do one of three things right now.

1-I'd walk, make that run, away.

2-I'd do worst case estimates of what that boat will require and have him drop the price that amount plus for my time and effort to get it in shape. That way I'd control all the work myself and I'd be sure it was done right. Also, if some surprise was found along the way I'd be able to correct it as well, where he might try to gloss over any extra.

3-I'd tell him to fix it like he plans and then I'll reconsider it and start the entire survey and sea trial process over. Until you see the "after" you have no idea what you're dealing with. Saying it's all fixed isn't his place, but that of your surveyor and you in sea trials.
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:50 PM   #66
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Wifey B:

Go while the going is good
Knowing when to leave
May be the smartest thing that anyone can learn
Go

I'm afraid my heart
Isn't very smart

Fly while your still have your wings
Knowing when to leave
Will never let you reach the point of no return
Fly

Foolish as it seems
I still have my dreams

So I keep hoping
Day after day as I wait for the boat I find
Night after night as I wish for a love that can be

Though I'm sure that
No one can tell where their wishes and hopes will lead
Somehow I feel there is happiness just waiting there for me

When a boat
Walks in your life, you'd just better be sure it's right
'Cause if it's wrong, there are heartaches and tears you must pay

Keep both of your
Eyes on the door, never let it get out of sight
Just be prepared when the time has come for you to run away

Sail when the wind starts to blow
But like a fool, I don't know
When to leave

So I keep hoping
Day after day as I wait for the boat I want
Night after night as I wish for a love that can be

Though I'm sure that
No one can tell where their wishes and hopes will lead
Somehow I feel there is happiness just waiting there for me

When a boat
Walks in your life, you'd just better be sure it's right
'Cause if it's wrong, there are heartaches and tears you must pay

Keep both of your
Eyes on the door, never let it get out of sight
Just be prepared when the time has come for you to run away

Sail when the wind starts to blow
But like a fool, I don't know
When to leave

When to leave
When to leave
When to leave
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Old 01-23-2016, 04:27 PM   #67
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I just re-read this entire thread and I think that you might be trying to protect the money already spent on the survey. If this is your reason for trying to save the deal, the survey has already indicated which way you should go and that's "RUN!
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Old 01-23-2016, 04:30 PM   #68
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I just re-read this entire thread and I think that you might be trying to protect the money already spent on the survey. If this is your reason for trying to save the deal, the survey has already indicated which way you should go and that's "RUN!
I was thinking something like a fatal attraction. But it could be trying to protect the survey money. I hope not. That money is spent either way.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:07 PM   #69
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Guess I see it a little differently. OP found a boat that works for him and possibly more importantly for the admiral. Clearly not a common boat. Sounds to me like this boat was one they could agree on, which adds motivation.

Then again, I could be reading too much into the earlier posts.

Ted
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:46 PM   #70
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No, the money spent is no big deal, and it's not my first "fixer". His mechanic is well regarded here and has been working with my guy. In effect my guy is supervising the estimate and I will be asking for standard warranty terms from the mechanic. Not my first boat rodeo, but is my first power rodeo. If this was a sailboat I'd know exactly where to look for the hidden demons. Admiral really likes the boat, more than I do which is a first....

However, we're also starting to look at other boats as this one just seems to suspect. 39' Californian anyone?

There's been very good points of view. I appreciate it.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:55 PM   #71
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Greg

You are getting conflicting advice from perfect strangers of unknown qualifications (me included) on this thread. Do you have anyone of known high capability with these specific engines assisting you on this? Until your answer is yes, be very careful.

Here is a test for the current owner. Best I understand the genset is toast. Is he willing to pay for the install of a brand new one if a factory rep rebuild of current unit is deemed by your newly on board "go to guy" as not cost effective?
So true. I too gave some of the unqualified advice, but it came from this experience.Years ago I found a Randell 32 with twin Volvo I/Os/sterndrives, like all IOs they needed work. The seller offered to fix them, I wanted a condition in the agreement that the repairs be done "in a good and workmanlike manner", that I get copies of the repair bills, have the work inspected by a mechanic, and unless it was all good I could walk. The seller prevaricated on my terms, I walked, it was a test, as well as contractual protection if agreed to, the seller failed it. Take care, the seller`s offer to "fix everything" could be good, or could be "too good to be true".
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:28 PM   #72
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it would be unlikely that you would have a problem with the radar (especially if it's already fried) the beam height is very narrow by it's nature, so as long as you're below it, you're not going to get into the beam...

so, as far as the radar goes, while we're being funny, this image is more accurate:
Actually neither is accurate. Between the power of your average marine radar unit and the fact it's a pulsed signal, the dangers of being scanned by your radar are an urban myth.
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