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Old 11-28-2012, 07:56 AM   #1
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Storing a Diesel

Many folks will simply change the oil and filter (hopefully from a warm engine) before the winter lay up.
Then in the spring , simply start up and operate .
That's how I have been doing it for "ever".

Seems DD has a very different opinion, of how it "should" be done.

LIFTED ,From their Series 50 handbook,


Extended Storage An engine
in storage for an extended period
of time (over winter, for example)
may accumulate water in the oil
pan through normal condensation of
moisture (always present in the air)
on the cold, internal surfaces of the
engine. Lube oil diluted by water
cannot provide adequate bearing
protection at engine startup. For this
reason, Detroit Diesel recommends
16 All information subject to change without notice. (Rev. 01/04)
DDC-SVC-MAN-0058 Copyright 2004 DETROIT DIESEL CORPORATION
SERIES 50 OPERATOR'S GUIDE
replacing the engine lubricating oil
and filters after extended storage.
NOTICE:
Failure to eliminate water-diluted
lubricating oil may lead to serious
engine damage at startup.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:19 AM   #2
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I'm having a hard time imagining after changing the oil, running the engine for 15 minutes, and then laying it up for the winter, the oil is going to dissipate off the engine bearings to the point where corrosion starts in 4 to 6 months.

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Old 11-28-2012, 09:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
Many folks will simply change the oil and filter (hopefully from a warm engine) before the winter lay up.
Then in the spring , simply start up and operate .
That's how I have been doing it for "ever".

Seems DD has a very different opinion, of how it "should" be done.

LIFTED ,From their Series 50 handbook,


Extended Storage An engine
in storage for an extended period
of time (over winter, for example)
may accumulate water in the oil
pan through normal condensation of
moisture (always present in the air)
on the cold, internal surfaces of the
engine. Lube oil diluted by water
cannot provide adequate bearing
protection at engine startup. For this
reason, Detroit Diesel recommends
16 All information subject to change without notice. (Rev. 01/04)
DDC-SVC-MAN-0058 Copyright 2004 DETROIT DIESEL CORPORATION
SERIES 50 OPERATOR'S GUIDE
replacing the engine lubricating oil
and filters after extended storage.
NOTICE:
Failure to eliminate water-diluted
lubricating oil may lead to serious
engine damage at startup.
So let me see if I understand this. The water vapor in the air is going to displace the film of oil on the bearing journal to the point it will be detrimental on start up.

Couple of things come to mind. Chicken fat or lard can stick to the bottom of a fry pan in the sink under water (not vapor) with dish washing detergent and a week later the chicken fat, grease, oil whatever you call it will still be there. But I digress. Back to the above conundrum. So how, after a long winters nap does one get the oil out to effect the change. Start the engine and warm the oil to 250* so it will come out. But if you did that then you did the damage already and besides unless the oil pan was full of water 250* oil temps boil off the water vapors.

I guess you could make a rig that would heat the engine oil and with a pump pass it through the by pass to the bearings and then flush. You got to be kidding. Sounds like something the local Yanmar guy might come up with to make his house payments in the slow months.

Now if we reread that it really says "Lube oil diluted by water cannot provide adequate bearing protection at engine startup." So what does that mean? Diluted by one part per million is way different than 100 parts or 500 parts or....... I don't disagree that diluted oil is bad. But where does one draw the line?
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:02 AM   #4
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This is standard language to avoid warranty claims for most/all engine mfrs. If you are under warranty do it the mfrs way or else. Some extended warranties can go for 6+ years so you will do 6+ oil changes, not a big deal IMHO. Once past the warranty period it is your engine to (mis)treat as you'd like.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #5
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My procedure includes the following.

Before lift
- change oils and filters
- check antifreeze condition (past - 20c required)

After lift
- Rinse with freshwater to the raw water circulation side
- then we drive 50/50 blend antifreeze and water to the engine and collect it from the exhaust (about 20 liters per engine)
- tape over exhaust to kill air circulation..

Then in the spring we change all fuel filters as well as air filters. After the first trip to home port I will change the oils and oil filters again just to be sure....

This is propably playong it too safe and complicated but then again, its my boat..
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #6
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A sailor friend restores/maintains antique cars for a living. I asked what he does for extended lay ups since some of the cars are only driven annually. He drains the oil and changes the oil filter before a lay-up but only puts back half of the vehicles oil capacity. Then when the car is going out, he adds the remaining oil just before start up. He feels that by doing this he is pre lubing. I sounds like a good idea for boats. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #7
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He feels that by doing this he is pre lubing. I sounds like a good idea for boats. Any thoughts?
None that would not hurt someone's feelings.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:08 PM   #8
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None that would not hurt someone's feelings.
Rick: Huh? Your not going to hurt mine. What about the 1/2 filling and completing just before start up? Pros/cons?
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:06 PM   #9
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Larry - This technique is not by the "book" on storing new or old engines. Given the importance of pistons and rings, how does this guy's 1/2 empty/full technique protect those? He'd never get hired at Harrah's as the head mechanic.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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None that would not hurt someone's feelings.
Holy crap... I feel faint. Somebody catch me...
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #11
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Gonzo you OK?

If you fog a diesel while cranking a cold engine is ther'e a risk of the fogging oil becoming fuel and revving the engine way up? I figure the droplets of oil would be very large compared to what comes out of the injectors and while cranking a stone cold engine it would probably not run on the fogging oil.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:15 PM   #12
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None that would not hurt someone's feelings.
That has ever stopped you in the past.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:27 PM   #13
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That has ever stopped you in the past.
Oh snap. Y'all play nice now.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:52 PM   #14
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Change the oil & filters, take samples while oil is still warm/hot. Run pink stuff thru raw water side. After haulout, open engine seacocks let remaining raw water drain. Plug exhausts & wait for Spring. Then, start 'er(them) up; warm up slowly run for 50 hrs, then change oil & filters again. Normally change oil @ 100 hrs, filters @ 200 hrs; depending on how seasonal use is going. Seems to work on my 8.2 DD's
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:55 PM   #15
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Poor guys. ... We're able to operate all year.

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Old 11-28-2012, 09:58 PM   #16
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Poor guys. I'm able to operate all year.
No need to gloat! I'm on my boat right now.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:01 PM   #17
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Fred good post, I was cranking on my port 6-71 and it seemed to take for ever to fire up. I thought about you in a past post telling me there is a recommended layup proceedure for over 30 days. I didn't remember what it was but I was just about to ask when this came up. Now I don't feel like I broke anything. It sure takes a while to crank though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:26 AM   #18
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"probably not run on the fogging oil"

Most running diesels sure will continue to run on fogging oil.

Its in the cylinder , gets heated to .combustion temperature , so the engine runs.

No problem , spray less or intermittantly and the engine will stop.

The DD folks seem to worry that the interior volume of the engine is large enough to condense enough water (Quarts?) that will be on the pan bottom and the first pressure from the oil pump will be water , not oil.

The expensive technique the round motor aircraft folks use is to install a special preserving oil, and drain it out before the engine is returned to service.

With a bottom drain , perhaps this gets the water as a side benefit.

Filling an engine with oil is NOT pre lubing an engine.

A pre luber pressurizes the oil passages before start , either with a seperiate pump, or with an accumulator .

Sealing the engine might slow down the air changes and limit the water intake?
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:57 AM   #19
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Sealing the engine might slow down the air changes and limit the water intake?
Yes I believe this is the rationale behind advices to cover the exhaust tube ends. It is also an effective way to keep squirrels, etc. away from your engine, so you don't blow a nest out of the exhaust in the spring.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:22 AM   #20
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........ He drains the oil and changes the oil filter before a lay-up but only puts back half of the vehicles oil capacity. Then when the car is going out, he adds the remaining oil just before start up. He feels that by doing this he is pre lubing......
I am constantly amazed and amused by people who apparently lie awake at night and dream up "better" ways of doing things that teams of engineers and manufacturers have apparently missed for so many years.

Me, I figure the manufacturer knows his product better than anyone else and wants me to have a positive experience with the product, tell others how pleased I am with it, and return for my next purchase. I follow the manufacturer's instructions to the best of my ability. So far it's been working for me.
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