Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-17-2019, 07:00 PM   #1
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Some questions about mechanical surveys

Hello All,

I'm in the process of buying a boat. I've made an offer, it's been accepted. I've made a deposit. I've had a surveyor aboard, and it passed with flying colors. The rest of the purchase process has had to be put on hold because I'm away for work, and can't finalize anything until I get back in two more weeks.

In the mean time I've been trying, and failing, to have a mechanical survey done. It took more than a week for a mechanic to return my call. When someone finally did, I set up an appointment. Here we are three weeks later, and the job still hasn't been done. He keeps cancelling and rescheduling. Today, he didn't want to do it because it was raining, so I fired him.

The owner has a tech that he's used for years, and who knows the boat, but it doesn't sound like he does 'mechanical surveys.' The owner asked if I have a list of things I want checked. I don't.

I'm new to owning this type of boat. I've never owned a diesel engine, and I've never owned a generator. I don't have any practical experience with either. Bottom line is, I don't know what I don't know.

What should a good mechanical survey cover? Is there a punch list of items that I could give him? Is the average mechanic capable of performing a decent survey if he has a list of items to check? Are there any specialty tools he'd need that he may not have? Are there any other questions I should be asking right now?? lol.

Otherwise, all I can say is 'please tell me if this is about to explode, or cost me hundreds of billions of dollars.'

Any input would be appreciated most muchly.

EDIT: The engine is a Perkins 4.236M coupled to a BW Velvet Drive. The genny is a Yanmar, but that's all I know about it.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 07:19 PM   #2
Guru
 
Gulf Comanche's Avatar
 
City: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Old School
Vessel Model: 38' Trawler custom built by Hike Metal Products
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 918
I have the same engine, 4-236, and its been bulletproof for the 12 years I’ve owned her; she’s now 26 years old and solid. Have you run it up to operating temp? No smoke or anything other than smooth running? If you can get it up to temp, take an oil sample and send it off for analysis. This advise is from an uneducated shade tree mechanic, fwiw.
__________________

Gulf Comanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 07:23 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,527
If you're financing you probably need an official mechanical survey.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 07:25 PM   #4
Guru
 
Gulf Comanche's Avatar
 
City: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Old School
Vessel Model: 38' Trawler custom built by Hike Metal Products
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 918
Forgot to mention, I have a Hurth gear, no problems there either.
Gulf Comanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 07:29 PM   #5
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,102
A mechanical survey generally does not include any disassembly of the engines so not a lot of tools are needed. A photo tach is helpful to determine if the engine will turn the specified RPMs. If you are not able to get the survey done, I would want to start the engine cold and see how it starts and smokes or not. My Lehmans do smoke on start but goes away when they warm up. I would pull oil samples and have them tested. I would run the boat at full RPMs for at least 5 to 10 minutes to check for overheating. Look for belt dust and any oil leaking other than a drip. Look for a maintenance log book. Check for vibrations through the RPM range. Check the prop shafts for side play that might indicate worn cutlass bearings. Others may have things to look for and since I am not a mechanic by any means I may have missed some major items. Maybe Ski will chime in, he seems to know his stuff with engines.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 07:51 PM   #6
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,273
Dave, I was (still am) very ignorant about engines, let alone Diesel engines. As such, I had a mechanical survey done. Like you, I just wanted someone to take a look at the engines, run them under load and up to max RPM and see if there were any red flags. In addition, an oil sample was taken. An oil sample is a good idea because apparently people that know stuff (unlike me) can get valuable information from it.

If you canít find anyone to do a survey, then it might be worth having the mechanic that has worked on the boat come and run the boat and answer the question ďWhat if any repair or maintenance items would you recommend I take care of when I buy the boat?Ē. It might have some value.

Sure sorry you have had trouble getting a proper mechanical survey.
Rain? Really?
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 08:10 PM   #7
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,522
Greetings,
Mr. W. Hold on there a minute partner! You can't leave us hanging like that. What are you buying? The world wants to know.


__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 08:56 PM   #8
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,102
If my memory is correct, and that is an iffy thing lately, he is buying an aluminum trawler that is very nice looking. Unfortunately my memory is not able of recalling the brand...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 09:02 PM   #9
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,502
Where is the boat?
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 02:40 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Screaming04's Avatar
 
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 45
The final portion of a mechanical survey is done during the sea trial. All Diesel engines have a wide open throttle rpm rating and can be run at that speed. You can do this yourself. Run the engine at wot for 10 minutes. Does it reach the spec’d Rpm? (No? Overpropped) 2. Does it overheat?

I was onboard a boat I owned during its sea trial when I sold it. It’s a painful experience to witness, as most of us don’t do this enough. However, it absolutely must be done and the boat must be capable of running at that load for that period of time.
Screaming04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 02:53 AM   #11
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,834
Dave, does your hull surveyor have a mechanical surveyor he has worked with? Failing that I suggest just corralling a local marine mechanic to go over it, but you`d have to be there as he might not be a report type of guy. In my limited experience insurers want a hull survey but don`t ask for mechanical, don`t know about financiers though.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:13 AM   #12
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. W. Hold on there a minute partner! You can't leave us hanging like that. What are you buying? The world wants to know.


This here is the vessel in question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
If my memory is correct, and that is an iffy thing lately, he is buying an aluminum trawler that is very nice looking. Unfortunately my memory is not able of recalling the brand...


Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Where is the boat?
She's in Toronto.
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:51 AM   #13
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
During the survey and sea trial, we did run the engine through it's paces. We took her through the RPM range and compared oil pressure, temperature, and boat speeds with no major issues found. There is a discrepancy between actual RPMs and what is displayed on the tach since the owner changed out the alternator, but we didn't have the equipment to determine how much of a difference it was. Idle was also a bit low and needs to be adjusted a bit. We ran her at WOT for a good 10 minutes without any issues. The surveyor said there was some vibration, but it wasn't anything that raised any red flags with me. We checked for play in the cutlass bearing, and found none. There was very little smoke at any point during the run, even at startup.

We also took oil samples from the Perkins and the Genset, and both came back from Toromont Cat with no issues.

All of this in mind, I've been wondering if I actually NEED a mechanical survey. I'm still coming down in favor of yes, if for no other reason than my own peace of mind. I think what we did in the first survey will be enough to satisfy the bank and the insurance folks.
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:55 AM   #14
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Dave, does your hull surveyor have a mechanical surveyor he has worked with? Failing that I suggest just corralling a local marine mechanic to go over it, but you`d have to be there as he might not be a report type of guy. In my limited experience insurers want a hull survey but don`t ask for mechanical, don`t know about financiers though.
One of the leads I tried to chase down was one recommended by the surveyor, but it didn't work out. I wish I could be there for it. There's so much I could stand to learn in the engine room, but I want to have as much done as I can while I'm gone. Hopefully all i'll have to do when I get back is sign the papers and start cruising.
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:01 AM   #15
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,161
Try giving these guys a call

TAD for perkins engines, perkins diesel, perkins marine, perkins parts, perkins generators, perkins service

Perkins experts. Well regarded. I think Steve D'Antonio spoke highly of them in a recent article.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:15 AM   #16
Guru
 
boomerang's Avatar
 
City: Kilmarnock VA
Country: united states
Vessel Name: YellowBird MMSI 367769170
Vessel Model: 1978 Mainship m1 #149
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 545
Your prospective boat is beautiful. The only thing that I noticed from the pictures were that it looks like the injectors have been replaced & the valve cover has been off, both of which could be a good thing and a part of regular maintenance. The only mechanical thing I noticed that would be of concern to me was that it appears that the reduction gear has been separated from the clutch at some point. That wouldn't be construed as regular maintenance so I would have to question the reason.
__________________
-Shawn-
boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:32 AM   #17
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Some questions about mechanical surveys

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomerang View Post
Your prospective boat is beautiful. The only thing that I noticed from the pictures were that it looks like the injectors have been replaced & the valve cover has been off, both of which could be a good thing and a part of regular maintenance. The only mechanical thing I noticed that would be of concern to me was that it appears that the reduction gear has been separated from the clutch at some point. That wouldn't be construed as regular maintenance so I would have to question the reason.

Thank you! I sure am smitten with her.
The owner mentioned having the transmission rebuilt in the last few years, so I assume thatís part of it.
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:34 AM   #18
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Try giving these guys a call

TAD for perkins engines, perkins diesel, perkins marine, perkins parts, perkins generators, perkins service

Perkins experts. Well regarded. I think Steve D'Antonio spoke highly of them in a recent article.


Thatís a good idea. I think Iíll do that. Thank you!
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:48 AM   #19
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
Thatís a good idea. I think Iíll do that. Thank you!
Talk to Sheri. She knows her Perkins.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Attitude Adjustment
40 Albin
Mystic,Ct. /New Port Richey,Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 07:27 AM   #20
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,653
Be careful of what constitutes red flags here.. Not to insult ones' intelligence but some experience boaters have brought things Ike this to me more than I would have thought


Things like failing to reach WOT isn't automatically overpropping, could be a foul bottom.


Breaking apart a drive train can be a cutlass replacement....


Overheating can be multiple simple things...


Etc...etc...



Could be show stoppers or hardly anything at all....so be careful not to walk away what might be a prize based on only sketchy info. Find the cause, not the symptom.
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mechanical, survey

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012