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Old 12-20-2010, 03:40 PM   #81
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

I don't know Ralph. Several of the great minds represented here may respectively (or not) disagree.
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:16 AM   #82
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Someone want to suggest a multi-stage filter setup, layout, or show me some pics of theirs, please?

In addition, what is involved in a tank cleaning? I have access panels on my two 150g tanks that are 12-15" diameter that I could conceivably reach into, but it's going to be a while before the tanks are empty enough to get into. Pointers? Warnings? Tips?
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:01 AM   #83
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Gonzo

Go to boatdiesel .com for all sorts of article's and pictures of the multi stage setup. Jay Leonard or ralph Yost who frequent*this site may have some pictures of their setups. Basically, all* you need is another filter in front of your Racor. The simplest is a spin on fleetguard type. Then set it up for 30u, 10u and on engine. I'd do this before trying to clean out your tanks.

But, have you had any more issues since goingback to the 30u primary?
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:31 AM   #84
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Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

An example of my multistage set up. 30 to 10 to on engine which is 7.


-- Edited by jleonard on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 10:32:27 AM
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:19 AM   #85
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Cool! Can you describe the process there?
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:57 PM   #86
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Sure.
The dual Racor 500 (with the vac gauge) was already in the boat and had 2 micron elements.
On my maiden delivery voyage from Rochester, NY to Ct I was clogging elements (and shutting down) every 6 to 8 engine hours. I had a case of filters but I ran out and had to borrow some to get home.
I already owned the large Racor 900 so I installed it as the first filter and use 30 micron elements. Both tank feed lines T just before the first filter.
Then on to the dual Racor that has 10 micron elements.
I added the Walbro pump* and plumbed it in a loop. As you view it the fuel is bypassing the pump. If I close the lower valve and open the upper, fuel goes thru the pump for either filter priming, or to use as a backup lift pump (in the unlikely event of a failure). I have it "ready" to use for "polishing" but I would have to finish up some plumbing (which I have everything aboard to do if need be).
From the dual 500 fuel goes to the dual CAV units on the Ford-Lehman which have 7 micron elements (I believe,*it is whatever is standard for the Lehman from ADC).
Since I have gone to multi-stage filtering I have never seen any vacuum reading on either gauge. The large element has been in 2 seasons, and I change the 10 microns once per season as I do the on engine elements.
Not pretty, but this has worked for me and solved the problem I had.

I am not going to argue about what size elements one should use. That gets too emotional.
The goal is to offer solutions should they apply to someone's problems.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:08 PM   #87
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Gonzo,

Here is a site that is also on BoatDiesel.*

http://sbmar.com/Products/SM-FF_Main.php

Tony Athens is by far one of the most respected folks on BoatDiesel.* He has been in the repair business for over 25 years in San Diego CA.* Go to the SeaMax Fuel Tration drop down. Then go down the right hand side of that page and look at his system kits and options.* If you buy the kit it is $250 and the T's and fittings to add the bulb it is another $70.* So for $325 you are done.* $380 if you need a gauge.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:09 PM   #88
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

That is a cool rig. I may copy it. Thanks.

Cousin V... I am on the fence about spin-on filters. I don't know what it is... I can't put my finger on it though.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:45 PM   #89
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

*I am on the fence about spin-on filters. I don't know what it is... I can't put my finger on it though.
They are no different than the others it's*just that you change the whole thing.* The inside is the same.*Your oil filter was an insert forty years ago and they all went to a*spin on.*Tony says that if you put a 30 in the first one and a 10 in the second one you will never have to change the one on the engine again.*

They also make that first one with a clear bowl so that you can see the water.* But the drain on the bottom should be all you need, just drain some out into a soda bottle to see if there is any water collecting.

*
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:00 PM   #90
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Yea... I get that... I'm not an idiot
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:38 AM   #91
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

When I modified my filtration system I would have gone with a spin on filter...however I already owned the Racor 900.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:14 AM   #92
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Are the spin-on cartridges readily available?
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:05 AM   #93
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:Are the spin-on cartridges readily available?
Everywhere filters are sold. Those magic filter heads and brackets are available from any hydraulic supply house for about $75 tops. Add a couple of hardware store fittings and gauges and the*money you save*will be enough to buy filter elements*for the rest of your life.



*
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:46 AM   #94
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Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Link(s)? Pretty please?

What is the thread size of the filters?

(Should you use thread tape on fuel fittings? It looks like it in Leonard's pic.)

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 09:02:53 AM
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:24 AM   #95
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

"Tony says that if you put a 30 in the first one and a 10 in the second one you will never have to change the one on the engine again. "

I agree a lot with Tony Athen's writings on multistage filtration. It has influenced my understandhing of how to best deliver fuel to the engine in the most reliable manner. However I dont agree with the statement above.
Go ahead and use multistage filtration and then after several hundred hours pull the on-engine filter. Cut it apart. It will have gunk in it !
The statement above is actually dangerous in that it lulls one into believing they never have to change their on-engine filters....ever.

For the low cost of a filter, why take this risk?

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Old 12-22-2010, 08:26 AM   #96
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Fuel filter philosophy is like anchors and religion. You will get LOTS of variations in answers to your questions.
This is an opportunity for you to design your fuel filtration system the way you determine it should really be done.
Having a second, standby filter is helpful if your other filter clogs.My boat had that when I bought it in 2007. Then at only 80hrs, I clogged the single 2micron filter and starved the engine. I had JUST left Fairlee Creek MD on the Chesapeake, and if you know anything about that place, you will know that*it is NOT a place you want to have an engine shut down !
But in that scenario, by switching over to the clean standby filter, you are saving the effort of having to change the filter that is dirty at a time that might not be good - ie , waves, high boat traffic area, inlet, whatever might be the worst possible time. However, fuel starvation of your engine will still occur in this scenario and you will STILL have a dead engine and have to go down and bleed the system.
This is where multi-stage filtration excels and is better than the standby filter configuration.
Multi-stage filtration provides you with an increase in the AVAILABILITY and RELIABILITY of your fuel going to the engine. You want the engine to be able to get the fuel when it calls for it.
I have 3 Racor 500s in series using 30, 10 and 2 micron filters, then goes on to the engine where another 2 micron filter gets the fuel on the engine. And yes, I do have a single standby filter but only because that was my original filter configuration when I bought the boat, so I decided to keep it. I simply used one side of the pair as the last part of my multistage filtration.
Finally, once you build the multistage filtration system, its very easy to simply add an electric fuel pump and a few valves in the hoses to create a fuel polishing system.
In this photo, you can see the three filters of the multistage filtration in my boat.
http://tinyurl.com/2u8t4lg
In the bottom lower left you can see the valve that switches the standby filter if needed.
My engine is a single Lehman 120. I also use a Racor 500 for my genset.
Note that ALL of my filters are Racor 500 so I only have one filter cartridge type for all filters. If I should ever run out of one size cartridge I can still use another size in any filter body.
R.
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:40 AM   #97
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Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

Link(s)? Pretty please?

What is the thread size of the filters?

(Should you use thread tape on fuel fittings? It looks like it in Leonard's pic.)
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.350.355/408

Every good hydraulic shop will have a selection of filter heads and brackets.

I do not recommend using thread tape on fuel or lube oil systems. Here is a link to the stuff I prefer to use. They make a version for just about every fluid and it works well.

http://www.rectorseal.com/chrt.htm

*


-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 09:41:47 AM
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:10 AM   #98
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

"(Should you use thread tape on fuel fittings? It looks like it in Leonard's pic.)"

I use teflon tape. I know compounds like rectorseal are better.

However, I have never had an issue with tape so I will continue to do what has worked for me. I am very careful and never put tape on the first 2 threads.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:24 AM   #99
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Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

It sure would be cheap enough to switch to spin-on filters. My issue is that I already have two Raycor 500's (one for engine... one for genset), so picking up a couple more on eBay would be easy enough too. Maybe not AS cheap... But whatever. That's why I like Leonard's solution better. With the added plus of carrying only one (small) type of filter for all apps.

Can you get the easy switch-over valve and vac gauge without buying it from Raycor?

**EDIT** Of course... After giving it some more thought, configuring two 2-stage spin-off rigs would only be about $200, then I could dedicate my current 500's to the genset.

Can I see some pics of people's spin-off rigs?

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 10:37:16 AM
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:47 AM   #100
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RE: Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

**EDIT** Of course... After giving it some more thought, configuring two 2-stage spin-off rigs would only be about $200, then I could dedicate my current 500's to the genset.

Can I see some pics of people's spin-off rigs?

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 10:37:16 AM
Why 500 for the gen set.* Two things to consider.* One the fuel flow to the gen set does not require a 500*and two the gen set pickup is usually a foot or so from the bottom of your tank so you don't need the water bowl like you have for the engine.* If you have that much water in your fuel you have more problems than a filter can fix.* A*Racor 100 series*does the job.* Which is a small*spin on R12C*can.

It looks like you can built a 2 stage like Tony sells but by the time you jack around getting all of the parts I think that for about $50 bucks more you can get the complete set up from Tony. *Primer and all. *No chasing the one piece you didn't pick up or any hassles.
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