Small Surges in RPM Every Few Minutes.

[Tom.B]

SeaHorse II wrote:

*
GonzoF1 wrote:... I am going to change the filter FIRST

I'm betting that the filter is the culprit.

*

*



And you, sir, win the internet.

Preliminary findings today show that it appears that a filter change has done the trick. Changed it back to a 10mic and went out for about an hour without a hiccup. We'll see it the streak continues.

*

Seven pages... Just for a filter change. I deserve to be flogged!

 

[Carey]

GonzoF1 wrote:
.

*

Seven pages... Just for a filter change. I deserve to be flogged!

*

Be in the town square at 1400hrs. We'll get the job done. Thirty lashes should do.

*

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Congrat's Mr. Gonzo.* Although changing the filter DID seem to cure the problem it could also be that you fixed your air leak at the same time.** Just sayin'

 

[Keith]

I had a similar problem once and it turned out to*be the sealing ring in the cap of the Racor filter assembly.

 

[Codger2]

RT Firefly wrote:
"..... it could also be that you fixed your air leak at the same time...."

It's certainly possible but the point is , "When trouble shooting, go upstream in the
system first to check on power, connections, leaks, clogged filters, etc."

I once had a FloScan indication of an increased fuel flow on my starboard engine
(48' Offshore) and I sent the mate (hired) down below to check for fuel leaks. He
found a spin on engine fuel filter had not been tightened by the mechanic and was
spraying fuel all over the place. Needless to say the filter was tightened, problem
resolved and the mechanic replaced.

*

 

[jleonard]

*"had a similar problem once and it turned out to*be the sealing ring in the cap of the Racor filter assembly."

Wish I had a nickel for every time I solved this problem on ou rdock over the years.
I'd have a quarter by now.

 

[Tom.B]

That is an excellent point. I did my due diligence this time and replace both o-rings on the filter when I changed it (one on the t-handle). I cleaned the channel it was in, the mating surface, and made extra sure I did what I could to seal it as best I could. Even thought about using a little bit of petroleum jelly, but I was wedged in a small space and really didn't feel like squirming out again to fetch it.

So it could have been either. Couldn't fix one without the other and wanted to fix it WITHOUT buying a new tool just yet.

 

[RickB]

GonzoF1 wrote:

... and wanted to fix it WITHOUT buying a new tool just yet.

Glad to hear it is fixed, but finding a reason NOT to buy a new tool borders on heresy!

 

[Tom.B]

After spending about $500 more than I expected on the hard last week, the actual cruise to Carolina Beach, and a looming $5000 canvas job... Every save penny counts right now.

Can I borrow yours?

Tom-

 

[RickB]

GonzoF1 wrote:Can I borrow yours?

It's in my toobox on the boat in Maryland. If I had it here (Fort Lauderdale) you would be welcome to borrow it though.

 

[Phil Fill]

I really do not want to start this discussion again.* Ok, maybe I do?*

*
Our Webasto diesel boiler had a small slow air leak that over several days ½ filled the filter is air and it should shut down.* Since the air was trapped in the filter I knew it was either before the filter or the filter as filter are on the major cause of fuel problems.*


*
So I took, FF and RickB, suggestion and installed an inline clear fuel filter.*

Filter cost 6 bucks.* I by passed the filter and installed the clear filter at the top of a loop so the air could be seen and trapped.* Sure enough there were where tiny little air bubbles so I knew it was not the big filter.* Since I could see the air bubble I start tightening fitting.* I found on of the old fittings was sucking a bit of air and tightening it one turn the air leak stopped.

*
Also the Webasto draws more fuel than it uses for it cleans/polishes the fuel.* I been polishing the fuel and using additives for 13 years, with not fuel problems, except this leak. **So I added the in line filter to my bag of tricks.* *The suggest was made in the the first 2 pages and it took 6 more pages of stuff.***

*

 

[ralphyost]

Gonzo
My post back on Dec 2 suggested you start by changing the filter.

Changing the filter when troubleshooting a diesel fuel problem is so simple, especially since you said you had 70 hrs on your filter. I once had complete fuel starvation from a 2 mic filter with 80 hrs.

Glad you got it fixed !!!

So now you might begin to consider the condition of your fuel. Clogging at 70 hours indicates your fuel is in worse condition than you think.

Start thinking about installing a multi-stage filtration system.

R.

 

[sunchaser]

Good suggestion Ralph - I'd add to it "Do not use 2 micron filters again as your primary filter." Except to mollify RTF of course who paid dearly to get nominated for the* the "Hall of Flame."

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Mr. sunchaser.* How did I pay dearly for my current "lofty" position?* I did NOT solicit or support,*in any way, shape or form my "nomination".* It was someone elses, alcohol induced (I think), idea.
** You folks can filter however you wish but MY system works for me (and I suspect others who were too intelligent to get caught up in the "discussion").
*** YMMV

 

[Codger2]

sunchaser wrote:Except to mollify RTF of course who paid dearly to get nominated for the* the "Hall of Flame."

You obviously don't know what you're talking about which makes all your
suggestions suspect at best.

*

 

[Doc]

I am still going to vote for 2 microns. At trawler speed my 330 Cummins won't know the difference. I once had a 2 micron 1000 series on a 6-71 go at 19 hours. It had been there for only 6 months. My mechanic said that time and use can do in a Racor. This was 10 years ago. Have Racors been improved so as to not deteriate by soaking un-used in fuel?

I have a single engine boat with no vacuum gauge (but considering one). I consider a frequesnt change of my 900 pretty cheap insurance. Failing that, I consider Tow Boat/US as my get home engine.

 

[sunchaser]

For those who use less than 97.5 gal of fuel *per year, a 2 micron primary filter*is just fine. Then for those of us with hair on our chest ----------.

 

[sunchaser]

Seahorse -- Rumor has it that RTF bribed his way into the Hall of Flame by donating a much appreciated electric Yugo roadster to someone in SoCal.

 

[Marin]

sunchaser wrote:

"Do not use 2 micron filters again as your primary filter." Except to mollify RTF of course who paid dearly to get nominated for the* the "Hall of Flame."

I dunno..... Our diesel shop, friends of ours who've been in the marine engine design and manufacturing business for three-plus decades,* a couple of commercial vessel owners we know, and most of the (who I consider) knowledgeable boaters we know all use and recommend 2-micron filters all the way through the system--- primaries and secondaries.* Their reasoning has always been the same--- the farther away from the engine(s) you catch stuff the better.

So that's what we've done these last twelve-plus years and to date the filters that come out look pretty much like the new filters going in other than being darkened by the time spent immersed in the red-dyed fuel.

*

 

[ralphyost]

Here we go....the "micron filter" discussion !

2 micron is good to use, as long as it is AFTER other filters to pull out the larger particles first. If using only a single filter and you drop in a 2 micron cartridge, it WILL clog faster than if at the end of multi-stage filtration.
Google TONY ATHENS and read is publications about multi-stage filtration.
R.

 

[Doc]

I don't know Ralph. Several of the great minds represented here may respectively (or not) disagree.

 

[Tom.B]

Someone want to suggest a multi-stage filter setup, layout, or show me some pics of theirs, please?

In addition, what is involved in a tank cleaning? I have access panels on my two 150g tanks that are 12-15" diameter that I could conceivably reach into, but it's going to be a while before the tanks are empty enough to get into. Pointers? Warnings? Tips?

 

[sunchaser]

Gonzo

Go to boatdiesel .com for all sorts of article's and pictures of the multi stage setup. Jay Leonard or ralph Yost who frequent*this site may have some pictures of their setups. Basically, all* you need is another filter in front of your Racor. The simplest is a spin on fleetguard type. Then set it up for 30u, 10u and on engine. I'd do this before trying to clean out your tanks.

But, have you had any more issues since goingback to the 30u primary?

 

[jleonard]

An example of my multistage set up. 30 to 10 to on engine which is 7.


-- Edited by jleonard on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 10:32:27 AM

 

[Tom.B]

Cool! Can you describe the process there?

 

[jleonard]

Sure.
The dual Racor 500 (with the vac gauge) was already in the boat and had 2 micron elements.
On my maiden delivery voyage from Rochester, NY to Ct I was clogging elements (and shutting down) every 6 to 8 engine hours. I had a case of filters but I ran out and had to borrow some to get home.
I already owned the large Racor 900 so I installed it as the first filter and use 30 micron elements. Both tank feed lines T just before the first filter.
Then on to the dual Racor that has 10 micron elements.
I added the Walbro pump* and plumbed it in a loop. As you view it the fuel is bypassing the pump. If I close the lower valve and open the upper, fuel goes thru the pump for either filter priming, or to use as a backup lift pump (in the unlikely event of a failure). I have it "ready" to use for "polishing" but I would have to finish up some plumbing (which I have everything aboard to do if need be).
From the dual 500 fuel goes to the dual CAV units on the Ford-Lehman which have 7 micron elements (I believe,*it is whatever is standard for the Lehman from ADC).
Since I have gone to multi-stage filtering I have never seen any vacuum reading on either gauge. The large element has been in 2 seasons, and I change the 10 microns once per season as I do the on engine elements.
Not pretty, but this has worked for me and solved the problem I had.

I am not going to argue about what size elements one should use. That gets too emotional.
The goal is to offer solutions should they apply to someone's problems.

 

[JD]

Gonzo,

Here is a site that is also on BoatDiesel.*

http://sbmar.com/Products/SM-FF_Main.php

Tony Athens is by far one of the most respected folks on BoatDiesel.* He has been in the repair business for over 25 years in San Diego CA.* Go to the SeaMax Fuel Tration drop down. Then go down the right hand side of that page and look at his system kits and options.* If you buy the kit it is $250 and the T's and fittings to add the bulb it is another $70.* So for $325 you are done.* $380 if you need a gauge.

 

[Tom.B]

That is a cool rig. I may copy it. Thanks.

Cousin V... I am on the fence about spin-on filters. I don't know what it is... I can't put my finger on it though.

 

[JD]

GonzoF1 wrote:

*I am on the fence about spin-on filters. I don't know what it is... I can't put my finger on it though.

They are no different than the others it's*just that you change the whole thing.* The inside is the same.*Your oil filter was an insert forty years ago and they all went to a*spin on.*Tony says that if you put a 30 in the first one and a 10 in the second one you will never have to change the one on the engine again.*

They also make that first one with a clear bowl so that you can see the water.* But the drain on the bottom should be all you need, just drain some out into a soda bottle to see if there is any water collecting.

*

 

[Tom.B]

Yea... I get that... I'm not an idiot