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Old 01-01-2013, 07:25 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
And you're likely to have twice the failure rate of any single engine since having twice the number of engines.
You'll have twice the failures. This is true.

You'll fail at exactly the same rate. And since they are nearly completely independent of each other, so are the failures. (and therefore highly unlikely to happen simultaneously)
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #82
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[QUOTE=markpierce;123327]
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And you're likely to have twice the failure rate of any single engine since having twice the number of engines.
Even if I had 5 times the failure rate of a single it still doesn't matter as I will still have the other engine to do whatever I please, be it continue with my trip or go home.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:59 PM   #83
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I've never said or implied someone having two engines will necessarily have them both fail before someone's single engine.
That's why I said "...in reality..."
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #84
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Marin said:

" At the time we put this together we decided to use this particular Lugger engine. "

In looking at Luggers Current model lineup the only NA engine they offer is 40 HP. It appears JD's Current model lineup has an 80 HP NA version of the 4045.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:33 PM   #85
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[QUOTE=mahal;123335]
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post

Even if I had 5 times the failure rate of a single it still doesn't matter as I will still have the other engine to do whatever I please, be it continue with my trip or go home.
Those of us that have singles, carry spares, know how to deal with failures and emergencies in a timely way have ecxactly the same opportunities....continue the trip or go home.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #86
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Marin said:

In looking at Luggers Current model lineup the only NA engine they offer is 40 HP. It appears JD's Current model lineup has an 80 HP NA version of the 4045.
Okay, thanks for the info. So it seems if we end up pursuing our re-engine plan it would have to be with a turbocharged engine because we'd want at least 150 hp per side if not 200 or more. Too bad.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #87
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Marin, a good option may be a Cummins reman 210 NA. Full warranties are available.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:53 PM   #88
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Marin, a good option may be a Cummins reman 210 NA. Full warranties are available.
Thanks for that info. I have filed it with the rest of the information we've been compiling about this potential project.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:00 PM   #89
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Marin, a good option may be a Cummins reman 210 NA. Full warranties are available.
I had a 38' sport fisher with a pair of Cummins 210s and 2 single engine boats, both with Cummins. I've also had a 54' sport fisher with a pair of 8V92 DDECS. (760hp each) My current boat is a single & has a Cummins 330B. Now, I don't want to throw mud on anyone else's engines but I've had Cats (2 pairs of 3208s) a pair of Perkins 200s and 3 Cummins & I love the Cummins. Easy to change the belts, you can move the dip stick and oil fill if it's not in a place that suits you, etc. I've never had a problem or engine failure with the Cummins. They would be great re-mans for a lot of boats.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:02 PM   #90
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If an engine were to have a record of failure and that record was an accurate account the record for two engines would obviously be twice as high so a failure of one of the two would be double that of one ... duh

But after one fails the chance of the other failing is rather unlikely and it's so obvious I feel stupid saying it.

I repeat that the only reason we're having this discussion is the undeniable fact that most single engine skippers are afraid one of their engines are going to fail and leave them helpless (except for psneeld of course (who has an abundance of bailing wire and lots of confidence)) so we single engine skippers are doomed to live in fear of the lights going out and becoming helpless.

I for one know this as it happened to me this summer and I'm having lots of serious thoughts of a suitable get home. Wether I go boldly forth w/o one or not dosn't alter the fact that given enough time te engine will fail again and I'll wish I had twins again. I've wished that all along.

If you take away the redundancy factor many will still think twins are better so what does that say for those arguing against twins where the redundancy does apply.

I think it's proof that men will argue that what they have is better than what the other man has to justify where they are in the world but mainly to justify themselves.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:17 PM   #91
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[QUOTE=psneeld;123360]
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Those of us that have singles, carry spares, know how to deal with failures and emergencies in a timely way have ecxactly the same opportunities....continue the trip or go home.
I would rather do the repairing at my destination or homeport rather than at sea. And although I can rebuild a Lehmans, as most can as it is a very simple engine, at homeport I have the option to hire someone to do the fixing in case I don't feel up to it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #92
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So would I but usually in a few moments depending on the failure...you are going again...

And manyboats...bailing wire and confidence is not what it takes to keep going...it takes proper spare, tools and knowhow....

I don't disagree with the luxury of 2 engine thinking...but it seems that while single owners fear being left stranded...they seem to fear it less than twin owners...thus the reason WHY they are twin owners and single guys just grin and bear it...
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:50 PM   #93
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I had a 38' sport fisher with a pair of Cummins 210s and 2 single engine boats, both with Cummins. I've also had a 54' sport fisher with a pair of 8V92 DDECS. (760hp each) My current boat is a single & has a Cummins 330B. Now, I don't want to throw mud on anyone else's engines but I've had Cats (2 pairs of 3208s) a pair of Perkins 200s and 3 Cummins & I love the Cummins. Easy to change the belts, you can move the dip stick and oil fill if it's not in a place that suits you, etc. I've never had a problem or engine failure with the Cummins. They would be great re-mans for a lot of boats.

I would agree, I put a pair of Reman 330's in my boat in 2011.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:20 PM   #94
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Sorry psneeld the bailing wire reference was attempted humor.

And yes I've got so many spares I'd need to anchor up for awhile to find them. Lucky I have a wife that is an organizer.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:45 PM   #95
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....but it seems that while single owners fear being left stranded...they seem to fear it less than twin owners...thus the reason WHY they are twin owners and single guys just grin and bear it...
I've flown single engine airplanes for forty years. The GB we chartered before buying the one we have now was single engine. The narrowboats we've run in England are all single engine. All the vehicles I drive are single engine.

But engine failure has never been anything I've spent any time worrying about. And while we have had to shut an engine down on our boat on three occasions (and once when I caused one to shut down during a fuel transfer) and the fact that we were able to continue the run with no fuss or delay was nice, engine failure or shutdown is not the main reason I prefer a boat with two (or three) engines.

I simply like running and manipulating engines and transmissions. I find it much more interesting and challenging than running a single engine boat.

While there are some really nice boats out there with single engines, particularly lobsterboats, I would not be interested in owning one because I don't want to go back to running just one engine. Compared to operating two I would find it less enjoyable and less satisfying.

Back in the mid 1980s I had an opportunity to do some filming on a supply boat serving the offshore oil rigs off southern California. The boat I was on had three engines. And even though at the time I was not into the kind of boating we're into now, I found the manipulation of those three engines fascinating to watch and learn about. The skipper of that boat was an artist with the throttles and shifters as he held the boat in exact position under the rig's crane in the big swells while they offloaded equipment and people. I'd love to try it someday.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:59 PM   #96
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Having owned a bareboat charter company for 7 years, dispatching over 1200 charter weeks, I can say that I much prefer a single engine boat to a twin. We only had one engine failure where the charter couldn't continue and that was a brand new Bayliner 47 that had a fuel injection pump fail.

As far as prop/rudder damage, the singles were better hands down. We had about 20 incidents in the 7 years where a prop, propshaft, and/or rudder where damaged and the score was:

Twin engine: 20
Single engine: 0

This is not opinion.....this is fact.

When we designed our trawler line, most were designed as single engine with the ability to build them as twins if the client desired. We made this decision because of our personal experience as well as that of our designer and production manager. Steve Seaton (designer) prefers singles. Most true long range trawlers are singles. To my knowledge, Nordhavn has had little if any engine failures. Salvation II, a Nordhavn 46 circumnavigated in the 90's, had 9600 hours on the engine when the Sinks sold the boat and they never used their wing engine except for once or twice to make sure it would run.

Our former production manager runs a fleet of 8 fish boats in the Bering Sea....all singles.... In fact, he could not think of any of the boats that he fishes with that are twins. And these guys not only rely on their boats for their livelyhood, but for their very lives.

A properly maintained single engine boat is reliable, more efficient, and less prone to damage by striking something. Most problems encountered are fuel related or are caused by overheating due to a failed pump (impeller usually) or a clogged strainer. Anyone not able to deal with these issues should not be out boating in remote areas where they can't radio for assistance.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:07 AM   #97
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... We had about 20 incidents in the 7 years where a prop, propshaft, and/or rudder where damaged and the score was:

Twin engine: 20
Single engine: 0

Based on my observation of a lot of bareboat charter customers over the years, those statistics could say a lot more about the nature of charter boat customers than it does about how many engines are in a boat.

The motto in the film industry is "Trash the rental." Interpreted into the boat world, "Not my boat, not my problem."
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:50 AM   #98
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I simply like running and manipulating engines and transmissions. I find it much more interesting and challenging than running a single engine boat..
Marin, I understand your passion.

Nevertheless, I'm a single-function kind of guy. (Walking and not chewing gum at the same time.)
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:49 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Marin
"I simply like running and manipulating engines and transmissions. I find it much more interesting and challenging than running a single engine boat.."

Surely a dichotomy here Marin? You enjoy using the boat's multiple engines and transmissions, yet it is that very time you spend behind the wheel getting to your destination that drives you crazy, the old Lehman's slowness nearly kills you.... '8 knots, give me a break!'

However, the quicker you get to your destination, the less time you have for the enjoyment and challenge of those twins. So if you had to chose between speed or twins which would it be. Could you sell your soul for a single capable of say 30 knots?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:30 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post
I've flown single engine airplanes for forty years. The GB we chartered before buying the one we have now was single engine. The narrowboats we've run in England are all single engine. All the vehicles I drive are single engine.

But engine failure has never been anything I've spent any time worrying about. And while we have had to shut an engine down on our boat on three occasions (and once when I caused one to shut down during a fuel transfer) and the fact that we were able to continue the run with no fuss or delay was nice, engine failure or shutdown is not the main reason I prefer a boat with two (or three) engines.

I simply like running and manipulating engines and transmissions. I find it much more interesting and challenging than running a single engine boat.

While there are some really nice boats out there with single engines, particularly lobsterboats, I would not be interested in owning one because I don't want to go back to running just one engine. Compared to operating two I would find it less enjoyable and less satisfying.

Back in the mid 1980s I had an opportunity to do some filming on a supply boat serving the offshore oil rigs off southern California. The boat I was on had three engines. And even though at the time I was not into the kind of boating we're into now, I found the manipulation of those three engines fascinating to watch and learn about. The skipper of that boat was an artist with the throttles and shifters as he held the boat in exact position under the rig's crane in the big swells while they offloaded equipment and people. I'd love to try it someday.
Here's my last sentence on page 3 post 46...

"Marin has about the only answer I really accept...he likes driving a twin and that can't be argued with.."

I know what you mean...last time I resupplied an offshore jack-up barge I had to do it with a single in big swells...uuuuggghhhh!!!!!!
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