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Old 01-06-2013, 05:08 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
were calling the skeg a shoe.
To further confuse matters.......

What in Maine (and no doubt other places) is called a Skeg Bar, Skeg Iron, or just Skeg, is in BC known as a Rudder Shoe or just Shoe. My sources are Buck-Algonquin (who make them) and a Celtic (BC Packers) Shipyard drawing from 1952.

The Oxford Companion To Ships and the Sea (British) states....Skeg, or Skegg; "an extension of the deadwood to prevent a ships propellers digging into the ground if she went ashore on a bank."
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:26 PM   #242
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You say to-may-to and I say to-mah-to...

It's all the same in the end, right?
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:20 PM   #243
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chuckle....makes sense to me Marin. I love the concept of the efficiency of the single but i do like the idea of having twins to maneuver in port. Away from the dock the quiet quiet simplicity of a single...not to mention fuel and maintenance efficiency, are awfully enticing. what bothers me is the fact that commercial fishermen prefer singles, so, they are out there every day not like us so they should know what's best. Right?
Please read post #232 by Tad Roberts. And in case that name doesn't ring a bell to you, I recommend googleing it.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:23 PM   #244
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All of these boats are single engine. They are not grouped together to assist one another, but because that is where the fish are!


Amen, brother!
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #245
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Did it not occur to you guys that it's possible they are there for multiple reasons? Last spring I went down the BC coast and saw many many small groups of fish boats heading north and don't recall any loners. Probably was but I don't recall them.

Thank you TAD and I knew the term shoe was used by many knowledgable people in the marine world but it's hard to argue w a dictionary. I suppose it's possible that people that write dictionaries don't frequent boat yards.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:55 PM   #246
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I have a steel shoe on the keel of my boat.
It is a U shaped welded fitted over the bottom of the keel to protect it when grounding.
It extends forward and up the stem to just above the water line.When fitted it was filled with pitch, jacked into place and then thru bolted.
This was to ensure that there could be no wormies getting into the keel.
I have attached a couple of photos , one of gthe bow section and the other where the shoe is fitted over the skeg.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:24 PM   #247
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Benn, you're (we're) making dual-engine folks jealous, maybe?

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Old 01-06-2013, 11:05 PM   #248
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Benn
Your grounding show looks pretty stout.

Mark
Yours looks less stout and more like a rudder shaft support than a grounding shoe
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:06 PM   #249
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Re: Fishing boats traveling together.

Many boats fishing SE AK are from Washington. When they make the trip up or down the Inside Passage, they tend to travel in groups for the reasons discussed here. I have seen a group of seine boats traveling in follow the leader style, with only the lead boat being driven by someone who knows where they are going. The following boats may have a crew member driving, who is OK driving, but cannot navigate. Seine boats have five to seven crew aboard. Also, these boat are on a 'thru passage' with no stops, operating 24 hrs per day, so rotating the driving chore is required.

Once in SE AK, these boats go to the areas where they will fish. These areas are where the AK Fish and Game has set the openings. We have seen boats in transit from, say Ketchikan to Sumner Str. for a gill net opening. They do not usually travel in groups or pairs as the passage is not particularly difficult or dangerous. Once at the opening, all the fishermen are competitors. If someone breaks down, they will probably get help, but no fishing boat is going to loose the opportunity to earn their living to help someone who should have been better prepared. However, if they are sinking, someone will perform a rescue!

When in SE AK, we 'toy boat' operators need to learn how to stay clear of fishing boats that are fishing, and not impede their work. They are busy and may not be paying much attention to other small boat traffic.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #250
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Benn
Your grounding show looks pretty stout.

Mark
Yours looks less stout and more like a rudder shaft support than a grounding shoe
Maybe, but Benn's boat is bigger/heavier than mine. (Did I mention my boat's hull is made of steel --8mm keel sides, 12mm keel and rudder skeg?) I've slid aground twice so far (but able to continue to deeper waters) without damage except for scraped bottom paint.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:15 PM   #251
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Benn, you're (we're) making dual-engine folks jealous, maybe?

Mark, You can't compare your single screw to Tidahapah's as his vessel has a very good get home set-up in the form of a marine engineer onboard. Now that's something to be jealous about.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:20 PM   #252
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No disagreement here. Having a marine engineer/diesel mechanic aboard would be handy.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:56 AM   #253
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Eric-- I'm not going to argue with the dictionary. But I have never heard the keel extension that runs under the prop and supports the bottom of the rudder referred to as a skeg and have always heard it referred to as a shoe. The guys in the Seaview yard call it a shoe, the builders of narrowboats in the UK call it a shoe.

So while skeg may actually be the correct name, the chances are if you call it that most people will think you're talking about something else, like the fin on the bottom of a surfboard which is universally known as a skeg. So I think you're safe in continuing to call the rudder support extension a shoe.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:37 AM   #254
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You don't have to be a mechanic/marine engineer to get home. You just have to be able to figure out whats wrong and have an alternative system or spare part to bolt on that will get you someplace safe.

As far as skeg versus shore...I think it might be where you are from...but I've always hear that the "shoe" protects the skeg. If the skeg is a tiny thin thingy...I guess it might just be referred to as a shoe.

Either way ...if I was sent out to repair a skeg or shoe...I don't think I would argue with the service manager whichever he called it and I would have no trouble finding it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #255
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Did it not occur to you guys that it's possible they are there for multiple reasons?

...lonely fishermen...long stretches at sea... ....
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #256
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Eric-- I'm not going to argue with the dictionary. But I have never heard the keel extension that runs under the prop and supports the bottom of the rudder referred to as a skeg and have always heard it referred to as a shoe. The guys in the Seaview yard call it a shoe, the builders of narrowboats in the UK call it a shoe.

So while skeg may actually be the correct name, the chances are if you call it that most people will think you're talking about something else, like the fin on the bottom of a surfboard which is universally known as a skeg. So I think you're safe in continuing to call the rudder support extension a shoe.
Marin,
I concur with your description of a skeg vs. a shoe... the below pic is a rudder that is skeg mounted..
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:31 AM   #257
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First mate on my boat"s is Peter Richard Johnson. True.

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:53 AM   #258
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First mate on my boat"s is Peter Richard Johnson. True.

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Skipper -That's going to be lost on some of this crowd..
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #259
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At least there's a lot of things (most actually) being said now that I agree with. And Hollywood 8118 I agree fully that you posted a picture of a skeg ... well put as a "skeg mounted rudder". The interesting thing is would it become a keel if that same skeg had a propeller and shaft mounted within it? But I really think one should have the liberty to choose the best (as decided by themselves) of 2 or more terms in the grey area when the thing needing a proper name is'nt clearly this or that. Regarding what we've been discussing I don't think there is a strong chance of mis-communication. The area between a cruiser and a trawler is quite grey as well and most of us disagree about specifically what boats fall into what area or word of definition. Indeed we can't even agree on a definition of trawler. Last week I had the shocking experience of listening to a man with life long experience in boating more than equal to most here on TF say that a GB was not a trawler. I argued that there was possibly nothing more classifiable as a trawler than a GB. He stood his ground. But I think Hollywood has produced a genuine skeg. And as to the term shoe yes most people in my world call the keel to bottom of rudder "thing" a shoe. But like a horse shoe the horse shoe is external to the hoof and perhaps generally speaking the shoe is a protective fender to the bottom of a skeg or strut. The shoe/strut/skeg on end of a keel and usually connected to the rudder is fairly accurately described as a "protective strut largely or partially supporting the rudder and protecting the propeller and rudder from potentially damaging things below the surface of the water".

Perhaps the term shoe has descended from wood boats. As I recall they (mostly) had a metal channel or similar metal attachment to the "skeg" (not completely unlike a horseshoe) that usually led fwd along the keel and was probably refereed to as the shoe. See in the pic below my "shoe" is a metal attachment to the keel.

Well the short of it is either shoe or skeg will do for me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #260
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Last week I had the shocking experience of listening to a man with life long experience in boating more than equal to most here on TF say that a GB was not a trawler. I argued that there was possibly nothing more classifiable as a trawler than a GB. He stood his ground.
Shocking! ....(he was correct)
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