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Old 01-05-2013, 01:32 PM   #201
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Since we have only one engine, no get home engine, no Sea Tow to call and no redundancy, Lena and I have decided to sell Hobo. We've seen the light. NOT! But we do have 4 anchors though.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #202
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Since we have only one engine, no get home engine, no Sea Tow to call and no redundancy, Lena and I have decided to sell Hobo. We've seen the light. NOT! But we do have 4 anchors though.

As you post from Trinidad having ventured for several years and what, tens of thousands of miles on your "unreliable" single engine?

As I've said before this is great conversation but thats about it. Your voyages are proof that single engines are just fine.

Your voyages give the rest of us that are still locked into jobbs and schedules hope. Hope that we can do it when time allows, in our boats. You are proof that you do not need a Nordhavn to coastal cruise.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:52 PM   #203
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yep...ask them....but just not straight transportation of barges...that's easy work...ask them about construction work of precision position holding. They probably would prefer twins...
Well, we've been watching these guys do just that for a couple of decades now, here and up the coast in BC. Positioning docks, assembling and maneuvering huge log rafts, butting big chip barges into position for loading and unloading, maneuvering and holding dredges and spoils barges in position, etc. etc. etc. All with single engine tugs.

Carey and I watched a Fraser River tug precision-align a new 200-foot (approx) floating dock/breakwater in Ganges Marina a number of years ago. Towed the breakwater across the Strait of Georgia from where it had been manufactured up the Fraser and arrived after dark. Dropped the tow and then proceeded to push, nudge, coax and hold the thing into position so the guys on the dock could install the pins connecting it to the floating docks it was being attached to.

It was really impressive watching this single engine (IIRC it had a 16V-71) tug push here, scoot around to the other side and nudge there, then go and hold an end against the current so a pin could be installed, and so on until the dock was aligned and fastened into its final position. It is the single most impressive display of precise maneuvering I've seen to date by far. All with a single engine boat with a pneumatic transmission of some sort--we could hear it-- and no thruster in extremely confined water.

Although I didn't start using it myself at that time, that's perhaps the first time I realized what a wonderful tool power is when maneuvering a boat in close quarters.

We talked to the captain when he was done and fueling for the run back across the strait to the river. We complimented him on his handling of his tug and he thanked us but said that in reality this was one of the easier kinds of jobs they have. Usually they are doing the same sort of thing in terms of precision but contending with the strong current in the Fraser and with much more unwieldy and uncooperatve charges like log boom sections and chip barges. That, he said, is when it can get challenging. The one thing they'd done to this particular tug was install a Kort nozzle a few years before. That, he said, had made maneuvering a little more responsive and precise.

Not saying a twin wouldn't be beneficial in some situations but for what these tugs do day in and day out a single seems to work just fine. If a twin offered advantages over what they use today they'd have long since switched.

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Old 01-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #204
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The one thing they'd done to this particular tug was install a Kort nozzle a few years before. That, he said, had made maneuvering a little more responsive and precise.
I don't think the outcome would have been the same without the Kort nozzle. These guys are "good" but the nozzle covers up a multitude of screw ups.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #205
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I don't think the outcome would have been the same without the Kort nozzle. These guys are "good" but the nozzle covers up a multitude of screw ups.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #206
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I don't think the outcome would have been the same without the Kort nozzle. These guys are "good" but the nozzle covers up a multitude of screw ups.
Perhaps. There's no way to know. This crew had been doing this kind of work with the same boat for years before the nozzle was added. A lot of these smaller tugs don't have them and the way they are maneuvered, particularly on the river and in strong currents and in close quarters is simply amazing to watch. They do things with their boats that I suspect the average recreational boater could never even conceive as being possible.

But they're smart guys and in the commercial world where time is money they are not reluctant to add technology when it makes sense and if they can afford it, like Kort nozzles.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #207
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:24 PM   #208
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Marin said "Added to this is the high nature of the islands and coastal mountains, so communications can be spotty or non-existent unless one has satcom of some sort."

Actually, this is not true at all..
I wouldn't know about marine line- of-sight communications up the Passage north of Port McNeil.. I've never taken a boat up there, only a floatplane. So I'm going on what people in our club who have done the Passage over the last few years have told us in their presentations about their trips.

Weather info, they said, is pretty accessible in the places where you'd want it. But they said there are a lot of sections along the run, mainly in the two long reaches south of Prince Rupert and back in the islands and channels off the main route, particularly on the mainland side, where VHF connectivity is non-existent.

Have a problem in these areas, they said-- and one couple did-- and you are totally on your own unless another boat happens along or you have satcom.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:40 PM   #209
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As you post from Trinidad having ventured for several years and what, tens of thousands of miles on your "unreliable" single engine?...
Thanks Kevin: I know, having an "unreliable" single sucks. We left SE AK in 2007 and arrived in Trinidad this past August for hurricane season and boat projects. Never had to be towed. The only time the engine quit was an air leak in the fuel system. It took 10 minutes to get us going. For us, we specifically went looking for a single when we bought Hobo and have no regrets.

Single or twins just drop the dock lines. It will ruin you in a good way.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:23 PM   #210
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Most of the river tugs around here have flanking rudders. For those times when just having a second engine isn't enough...

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Old 01-05-2013, 05:53 PM   #211
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Down our way, unless you boat on Sydney Harbour or some super populated place there is no such thing as Sea Tow.
One has to be self dependant.
That means being reasonably handy around the engine room and carrying required spares.
A good Para Anchor is another asset if the water is to deep to anchor in.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #212
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According to this article Single Or Twin Engines- Which Is Best? almost all commercial fishing trawlers are single engines. Why would that be if they are so deficient? Single screw craft have the prop in the center in line with the keel which protects them while all the twins i have seen kinda have the props hanging off to the side away from the protection of the keel so are obviously more vulnerabile to debris etc. And like someone said here the engine almost never is the problem its supporting systems like raw water cooling etc.

the commercial trawlers depend upon there vessels to put beans on the table and it appears they most often go with singles why? ......hummm...from what you guys have posted i could list many things like fuel economy, lower maintenence costs, prop better protected, less weight so a larger payload can be carried......must be more......less engine noise, more room in the engine room.

lets see, what are the pluses for twins? with luck if one breaks down the other will get you home????? any others???...oh yes, the broken down engine can be used for parts for the one running. That is assuming since it is the same age that the same part dosent crap out on it as well.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #213
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Down our way, unless you boat on Sydney Harbour or some super populated place there is no such thing as Sea Tow.
One has to be self dependant.
That means being reasonably handy around the engine room and carrying required spares.

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SeaTow is in Broken Bay, and maybe other places too. But we also have Marine Rescue (formerly Coastguard), which is/was a purely volunteer organization. Now Roads & Maritime have got their claws into it we pay a levy to support MR with every fee we pay R & M, like license fees, and R & M levies individual local MRs to make them fundraise. As we now pay for it I`d feel free to use MR if I had to, other than just to log on and off during offshore transits as we already do.I`m happy supporting MR, just wish R & M had kept their tentacles off it.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:46 PM   #214
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Bruce,
You are right. In Qld we have Marine Rescue and Volunteer Coast Guard, seperate organisations operating in different ports and both voulnteer.
Locals join the one in their home port but each is a seperate organisation.
If one is a cruiser then there is not a lot of point in joining.
They do rescues for a donation and from heresay some peoople are very stingy.
Pretty hard to get them to tow a 30 tonne boat that is a hundred or 2 miles of the coast
I do use them when coasting with the Boss.
Otherwise I keep home or a relo informed by sat phone.
HF radio is not to dependable these days but terrific for weather reports and updates
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:12 PM   #215
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lets see, what are the pluses for twins? with luck if one breaks down the other will get you home
That's one, no luck needed, and depending on where you are at the time that reason can trump every good reason on the planet to have a single.

But the main reason as far as I'm concerned is that multiple engines are simply a hell of a lot more fun to play with than just one.

For me that's the primary reason why I now have no interest in ever owning or operating a single engine boat. There used to be several single engine boat makes and models I would have loved to have. But now having owned a twin engine boat for 14 years there is no way I could go back to a single. It would for me just be too boring.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:55 PM   #216
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Since we have only one engine, no get home engine, no Sea Tow to call and no redundancy, Lena and I have decided to sell Hobo. We've seen the light. NOT! But we do have 4 anchors though.

Larry
I couldn't help but think of you when this thread got going. Without a doubt you are at the top of TF "can do it 24/7" pyramid. Now, get back to redoing your paravanes ---------- and leave the rest of us to muddle along.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:12 AM   #217
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Floyd,
I actually know the reason fishermen go forth in single screw boats ... they don't go alone. They go usually in groups of anywhere between 2 and 5 or 6 boats. And then they have as many engines as there are boats.
The camaraderie among the fishermen is amazing. In Thorne Bay where I lived for the last 6 years every spring of course all the fishermen (about 6 on the TB floats) would attack their boats getting them fit out for the season. And w all this pressing work to do on their own boat they may spend 4 or 5 days working on another man's boat instead. I often wondered if the working hours averaged out or if the fisherman w the neediest boat got the most effort. I don't think anybody really paid any attention. They just did what needed to be done and all the boats needed a lot of work. And fishermen tend to work on fishing gear first and engines, anchor winches, stoves and other non-fishing gear came 2nd, 3rd ect ect down the line.

It's not unusual for them to leave about 4 boats strong and return w 2 or 3 boats one towing another. At times this would happen several times before they were gone from the town floats and on their favorite fishing grounds. There are Gill netters, Trollers and combination boats but they seem to seldom change from one to another.

Anyway they fish in good fishing areas and move w the fish so not very many fishermen are out far removed from the rest of the fleet totally on their own. They may fish on the west side of Noyes Island off the outer coast of Prince of Wales Island one bunch near shore and another 20 miles out. But most will be in groups about 30 min running time apart so they have a built in "tow assist". Single engine? ...... not much of a problem.

Another thing that is WAY different w the fishermen is that they are much more intimate w their boats systems that even a gearhead trawlerman. When an engine behaves in a certain way they instantly think of what came to pass 5 or 6 other times when the engine did the same thing. They have lots of history to draw on when the mechanical gets unusual.

So the fisherman travels in groups and is very intimate w his boat. They are also creatures of the traditional and the tried and proven. Nix on Rocna's. They want a Forfjord anchor like the older very experienced fishermen have. And as a result fishing boats of modern times resemble closely the fish boats of the 50s and earlier.

Armchair theories and new things don't hold much water w fishermen. They respect their elders and other successful fishermen. The methods and equipment they used are basically unquestionable.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:32 AM   #218
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Floyd,
I actually know the reason fishermen go forth in single screw boats ... they don't go alone. They go usually in groups of anywhere between 2 and 5 or 6 boats. And then they have as many engines as there are boats.
The camaraderie among the fishermen is amazing.
Very, very good point Eric and one that is never brought up in the "commercial guys don't use twins" argument for the superiority of singles. I would never have thought of it had you not written your post even though I've observed (and we've filmed in Charleston) the camaraderie you speak of, from here to South Carolina to Prince Edward Island to Scotland.

I'm sitting on our boat now as I write this. We're in our slip in Bellingham and it's blowing and raining, the boat's rocking and moving and the waves are bashing against the breakwater 300 feet behind us. I wouldn't want to be out there no matter how many engines we had.

We like to go to Moclips on Washington's Pacific coast during the winter. The weather is crap, the winds are strong and the waves on the beach in front of the funky motel we stay in are big. And offshore the crabbers run back and forth all day and all night pulling and resetting their pots as their hulls appear and disappear in the swells. At night their swaying floodlights are all we see a mile or more off the beach. And there is NEVER just one boat out there. At any one time there are at least two and more often it is three or four that we can see in the stretch of ocean visible from Moclips.

So I think you're right on the money with this. Unlike Joe Cruiser who takes his Nordic Tug up the Inside Passage on his own, or you in Willy coming down the Passage on your own, the commercial fishermen are out their in groups. Six boats, six engines.

Good observation and point.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:12 AM   #219
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So, commercial fishermen aren't territorial or don't mind sharing their "hot spots"? I've been watching too much "reality" TV.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:07 AM   #220
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depends on the fishing fleet...some boats like longliners venture far and are often alone for many hundreds of miles unless the fishing is particularly hot n just one area (not too common anymore).
While some local fleets in Jersey like scallopers are usually in tighter groups...many of the fishing boats may be in the general area (somewhere off the Jersey coast, but they neither run together or at the same time.

So in some areas the fishing together might be a comfort...in many it's a very long wait till another commercial fisherman shows up to tow much of the time.
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