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Old 07-31-2013, 05:18 PM   #21
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I have been thinking of adding some form of dewatering pump, but haven't yet. Lots of possibilities out there, maybe if you have a generator, an AC powered high volume pump??? There is probably no one good answer for all applications, but would like to hear some options?

On our gillnet boats, we had belt driven 1" or better Jabsco dewater pumps on the main engine. The pumps were either engaged manually by pulling a lever which tightens the belt on the pump pulley or with an electric clutch pulley. Both are pretty simple, but it does require some engineering.

Diverting the engine raw water pump to dewater a boat will work, but has its risks and should be a last resort. Have seen a couple of complete loss of power and engine ruined. Because either the pumping volume exceeded the flood water flow and ran the pump dry ruining the impeller and another sucked debris up and plugged the pump/cooling system (plastic bag - the owner stored spare filters in zip lock bags.) The boat had to be beached when the engine overheated. A crew member must be assigned to monitor the pump and ensure it has water. Hard to get someone to sit in the engine room and do this when you have a declared emergency.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:54 PM   #22
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I have been thinking of adding some form of dewatering pump, but haven't yet. Lots of possibilities out there, maybe if you have a generator, an AC powered high volume pump??? There is probably no one good answer for all applications, but would like to hear some options?
Because we have a large inverter, and a generator I thought the AC powered route would be best for our boat.

I was thinking about running the output to a through hull high above the water line. Possibly I could have a quick detach fitting like on a trash or fire pump and a length of hose onboard.

Then if I retained the plug in power cord, the pump could be easy to remove for testing, or helping out another boater.

I have a similar type pump at home and use it to water our lawn (we live on a lake), and have found them to be very reliable, providing many years of service day in and day out. I found the stainless model because I was worried that salt water would corrode a cast iron pump and reneder it inoperative when you need it the most.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:13 PM   #23
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Trash pumps are definitely the way to go...you can just buy the pump portion and hook it to a clutch/engine pulley, a giant electric motor, or a hydraulic motor if set up that way. The smaller 1.5 and 2 inch still outperform an army of electric bilge pumps. The Gas pump can be mounted in a box on deck and some of the plumbing permanently installed. The carb can be connected to a dingy gas can for quick start up. The whole rig may take just a minute or two to set up if the placement of pieces and parts are there already.

As a salvor..I gotta tell you there's nothing like them for dewatering...

The electric sumps and bilge pumps have very overly optimistic ratings....

But as I said...there are many options and configurations...one or several are worth exploring.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:46 PM   #24
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Gasoline powered trash pumps are extremely efficient at dewatering operations however I would caution against assuming that commercial duty 110 VAC pumps are at all similar to the bilge pumps sold at the marine stores or the Home Cheapo homeowner equivalent, very far from it. That said a gas engine works when the generator or inverter crap out so has my vote for out on the water work. If my boat where large enough and going offshore you couldn't talk me out of having one aboard, couple gallons of gas be damned.

I'm a simpleton and read the statistics from Boat US(my insurance company) and noticed that far more boats sink at the dock than away from it. I use ZOELLER Pump, Sump, 3/10 HP - Sump Pumps - 2P549|M57 - Grainger Industrial Supply plugged directly into the dockside power outlet, not the boat. Discharge water is directed out of a surplus 1 1/2" exhaust hose for the old generator that was removed by the PO. If my 12 volt system craps out at the dock during a flooding incident in my absence the likelihood that the marinas AC power will fail too is remote enough for me to feel is an acceptable risk.

Of course this will be of no help away from the dock but that's not the emergency I had in mind when designing it. High water alarm is a future project, some great ideas in this thread.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:58 PM   #25
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Something else had to happen.
I'm not an insurance investigator but given these photos and the explanation I just read, I think I could come up with a pretty good theory as to what "really happened." (Scuttled?)
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:08 AM   #26
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A couple of months ago I was on a sport fish boat that was hooked to a large fish and backing down. Eventually enough water came in and worked its way below that the freeing ports were under water. When I looked in the engine room, I saw two big 2 inch sea strainers feeding water to the engines. It sure would have been nice if we could have used those to pump the bilge. There was no shortage of crew on board and the freeing ports were stuffed with towels and then the bilge pumps and bucket men started to make very slow progress. The Coasties showed up and put a 3" gas powered trash pump aboard and that made short work of removing the water. I'm in favor of anything you can do to increase your pumping capacity.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:11 AM   #27
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" I think I could come up with a pretty good theory as to what "really happened." (Scuttled?) "
That was my thought as well, but they had kids on board. That would be a pretty cold thing to do with kids on the boat.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:17 AM   #28
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That was my thought as well, but they had kids on board.
Makes the story all the more believable!
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #29
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There is also the other possibility. . . . total lack of mechanical skills!! Shocking how someone who owns and personally runs a boat can have no mechanical skills, but I see it on a regular basis. These are often the same people who pay a maintenance company to prep their boats. When they're away from the dock and out of range of "on call mechanics", they're totally unprepared to deal with the simplest problem.

We were at Sucia Island earlier this year and a man approached us and was looking for a ride for him and his family to Roche Harbor, San Juan Island. His 50' boat was anchored in the bay with fuel system problems, (probably plugged filters) and a mechanic couldn't come to fix it for a couple of days. His family didn't want to wait around and his wife wouldn't ride in the skiff. He didn't have any idea how or the desire to trouble shoot and fix the problem.

His intention was to leave the boat anchored there and move on.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #30
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A 2 inch hole 3 feet below waterline will let in close to 3000 GPH.

A blown out shaft seal. maybe 1/2" = 750 gph. If you did nothing it could sink you.

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Old 08-01-2013, 04:48 PM   #31
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There is also the other possibility. . . . total lack of mechanical skills!! Shocking how someone who owns and personally runs a boat can have no mechanical skills ...
All it takes is a checkbook ... surely you are not really surprised, you aren't exactly new here.

The only thing that continues to surprise me is the venom with which many of the checkbook captains will defend their shocking lack.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:59 PM   #32
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A couple of months ago I was on a sport fish boat that was hooked to a large fish and backing down. Eventually enough water came in and worked its way below that the freeing ports were under water. When I looked in the engine room, I saw two big 2 inch sea strainers feeding water to the engines. It sure would have been nice if we could have used those to pump the bilge. There was no shortage of crew on board and the freeing ports were stuffed with towels and then the bilge pumps and bucket men started to make very slow progress. The Coasties showed up and put a 3" gas powered trash pump aboard and that made short work of removing the water. I'm in favor of anything you can do to increase your pumping capacity.
A friend of mine has a 2006 Luhrs 41 sport fish. Right there, next to the strainers, is a valve on each side that allows you to select the intake water to the bilge as an emergency pump. I thought it was pretty damn clever. BUT, even though they were 635hp engines, I still can't imagine them having the ability to pump a lot of water...

My Mainship, a then Luhrs product, had three regular pumps as well as a high water alarm and an "oh shit" 4000gpm emergency pump. Obviously, the Luhrs folks take it seriously.
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:18 PM   #33
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Right there, next to the strainers, is a valve on each side that allows you to select the intake water to the bilge as an emergency pump. .
I had a similar set up on my twin DD8V92s. (760hp each)I don't know how much they were capable of pumping but I was told by the Detroit Diesel shop that they could pump a hell of a lot more that my bilge pumps could deliver.

It was so simple....close the RW sea cock & open the valve to the hose that laid on the ER FLOOR.

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #34
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BUT, even though they were 635hp engines, I still can't imagine them having the ability to pump a lot of water..
I would be surprised if the seawater pump was rated very much above 125 GPM.
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:52 PM   #35
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All it takes is a checkbook ... surely you are not really surprised, you aren't exactly new here.

The only thing that continues to surprise me is the venom with which many of the checkbook captains will defend their shocking lack.
----------------------------
"Surprised". . . . . . . After years of protecting stupid people from themselves; No. . . .not hardly.

Maybe better than "shocked", would be "annoyed." Your checkbook observation was correct. He eventually called Roche Harbor Marina and they hired one of the inter island water taxis to come out the 16 -18 miles to transport them. I wonder what that cost him?
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:54 PM   #36
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Maybe this captain was just not interested in risking his life to save his boat.

I can see myself doing the same. If there was another vessel that can rescue us, I would take that option, but if there wasn't, I would try my very best to keep my boat afloat to save lives, not the boat. Boats are replaceable....

Just another possibility.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:44 PM   #37
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Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:40 PM   #38
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Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

Unfortunately you smallish engine just wouldn't do enough to worry about..a hand bilge pump or even a tiny 500GPH bilge pump would probably be much more efficient and no danger in harming your engine.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #39
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Do you suppose running a hose from one of the unused manifold outlets to a flooded bilge while shutting the raw-water inlet to the manifold would work? (I presume the two unused outlets were for a genset and raw-water washdown system which don't exist on my Coot.) The engine's water pump would have to lift the water a foot or two unless the flood water reached the engine compartment's floor.

If you read what Baker and Rick B posted, it would seem that what you propose wouldn't be worth the effort as engine water pumps do not push enough water. Plus based on that photo, if you used those unused ports to run water in opposite direction to what they were intended for, water going through your RW pump and heat exchangers will be unfiltered as the flow you propose will bypass the strainer basket in you manifold. But, with how clean your bilge is, maybe bypassing the strainer is not an issue.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:04 AM   #40
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I have a set up similar to the drawing that Walt posted except my hose doesn't go through the hull. Strange drawing.

I don't know what my 1-1/4" Sherwood pump will move but I think about a 1000 GPH minimum. Some similar 1-1/4" rubber impeller pumps will move well over 2000 GPH depending on how fast they turn and the design of their cam. It cost me the price of two nipples, a tee, a ball valve, a hose barb, a couple of hose clamps and about three feet of hose. After reading the link Walt posted, I think I should add a strum box to the bottom to catch the big stuff.

When I bought the engine, I bought the optional V-Belt pulley with the idea that I could belt drive a larger emergency pump but I've never installed the pump.
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