Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-04-2017, 12:17 PM   #1
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
Service questions, Boat at yard now

I'm having some work done on my boat, which is sitting at the yard now. Wondering if anyone has any guidance on a few issues. First, the boat (Beneteau Swift Trawler 44) has a Cummins Onan generator that has 50 hours but is due for service. The labor charge estimate from the yard is $330 at a labor rate of $95/hr. This is to change the oil, primary and secondary fuel filters and impeller. And to bleed the fuel system and give it a test run. They'll inspect the belts and houses, etc., as well. Does more than 3 hours of labor sound right?

Also, the boat is being trucked from the yard in Seattle to Alameda. One of the line items on the estimate is diesel winterization for $455, with $440 of it labor. Of the boat is going to be back in service in the Bay Area, would winterization bee necessary?

I'm going to talk with them, but hoping I can get some guidance here first as I'm a newbie.

Thx!
Mike
__________________
Advertisement

MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 12:44 PM   #2
Guru
 
drb1025's Avatar
 
City: Bellevue, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Fiddler
Vessel Model: DeFever 46
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 607
Service questions, Boat at yard now

Must be the initial 50 hour service. Future service intervals are likely longer. But I suggest you watch the mechanic perform the service so you can do it going forward. From that perspective, the three hours of labor will continue to pay off in the future. As for winterization, that is cheap insurance compared to freeze damage.

Edit: it was 20 degrees here (Seattle) last night.
__________________

drb1025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 12:51 PM   #3
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,649
Michael, where is your boat sitting right now--inside and heated or outside on stands. It's been below freezing many nights in a row and gets up just above freezing in the day. Has the boat already been winterized? If not, I'd find out why. If there is water in the system it may have already frozen. I would immediately talk to the marina and, depending on how long it's been there, I'd try to hold them accountable for anything that has frozen and broken.


Their estimate on the labor for the genset is not out of line. Gensets are typically not easy to work on, they're stuck in places where getting to them is difficult, etc.


BTW, you can save yourself a lot of money in the future if you learn to do those simple maintenance tasks yourself. Buy your oil when it's on sale, find your filters and impellers for the genset and engines online. Things like that are not difficult to do, they're just time consuming. But the flip side is it's a great way to get to know your boat.


In any case, get it winterized ASAP.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 01:19 PM   #4
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
Great advice already.

In Puget Sound boats stay in the water year round with an almost constant water temperature around 50 degrees. Winterization is never an issue. However, if the boat is sitting on the hard during this unusually cold weather, it could be a big issue. I worry more about fresh water lines than the engine.

The other issue is that if the boat is going to be trucked South, it can be very cold in the mountains so that is something that would want to be considered as well. Once you are back in Alameda, you shouldn't have to ever worry about it again.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 01:42 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
jungpeter's Avatar
 
City: Everett
Country: US
Vessel Name: LIBERTY
Vessel Model: TOLLY 48
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 207
Hi Mike,

I'm assuming the yard you are talking with is in Seattle?? Is the boat currently located afloat in salt water (Elliott Bay, for instance)? Or is it in Lake Union?

The 50-hour service costs for you generator sounds about right. But, in as much as you won't be using the generator until your boat arrives in Alameda, why not postpone the service until you can watch a local Alameda yard do the work? Then, you can easily perform the same thing when needed in the future (if that's your choice), or better understand what's involved to asses a "reasonable" charge for the service later.

Regarding winterization-I'm not sure what "diesel winterization" consists of. If the boat's sitting on the hard, awaiting shipment, then general winterization in the PNW is a good thing. Temperature can (and currently is) fall below freezing up here. However, if the boat's sitting in the water, either in salt or fresh, the boat's sitting in an approximately 50 deg F heat sink. Topside temperature may be well below freezing. However, the boat's systems are surrounded by the much warmer water bath, so it's unlikely that freeze damage will occur. And the engine, which contains coolant that won't freeze until WAY, WAY below freezing, is likewise amply protected. In my tenure here in the PNW, I haven't winterized any system aboard my boats, even though the water surface here in Everett can and will freeze (my marina's located at the mouth of the Snohomish River) for several days at a time in the winter. No issues with freeze damage to date.

On the other hand, as you apparently will transport your boat overland from Seattle to Alameda this winter, the boat WILL be "on the hard" for that trip. And that trip may require several days at (perhaps) well below freezing temperature, with the boat fully exposed. So, winterization of ALL the systems seems appropriate prior to the trip south. Again, not sure why the local Seattle yard suggests just "diesel" winterization, but suggest you ask the yard to winterize ALL the locations (fresh water tank, holding tank, toilets, raw water side of the engine and generator, etc.) where fresh water may be trapped aboard for the trip south. And $455 for that service seems light to me.

Regards,

Pete
jungpeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 02:36 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
Thanks everyone. Postponing the service until Alameda isn't a bad idea. Do yards typically let owners observe? Or is it like car dealerships where that typically isn't allowed or is frowned upon? In Alameda, boat is going to Grand.

In this case, boat is on the hard in Seattle. Was pulled out yesterday morning. The fresh water tanks are empty. Plenty of diesel fuel though.

I did talk to the guy at the yard and he said winterization was for the trip south in case boat had to sit in freezing temperatures for a few days.

I definitely plan on doing the minor servicing myself once it's down here.

Appreciate the help!

Thanks,
Mike
MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 04:27 PM   #7
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
I am not a wiz with mechanical things, but if all the fresh water is drained, as well as the holding tank, I don't think you would need to worry about the cold weather for the engine. As was mentioned, your coolant will be antifreeze and you shouldn't run into sub-zero temps on the way South.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 04:49 PM   #8
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,937
Because you hauled from the ship canal, all the water in your raw water cooling system is fresh water. I'd winterize right away, given the boat is and will be out of the water, and give the cold temps in the area.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 07:39 PM   #9
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Helmsman 4304
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,148
Re the genny, I have the same one as you, and that cost sounds like the going rate to me.


If you pull fluid samples on your gen, it is best to have them sent to Cummins, rather than to Volvo. Volvo will tell you the Oxylate readings are off for the coolant, because the coolant in Cummins and Volvo are different animals. Either way, if Volvo does sample your coolant, they can tell you if the other compounds are within spec. just my .02, but obviously up to you as to how you handle.
Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 08:10 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
garrobito's Avatar
 
City: Oakland
Country: US
Vessel Name: Arcangel
Vessel Model: Buewater 40
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 148
Winterization for bay area is not necessary. Number for work on gen appear right (sometimes is very hard remove filters or impellers and take time)
garrobito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 08:12 PM   #11
Guru
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,050
Mike, what yard is the boat at?
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 08:58 PM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,915
Mike
You mentioned Gen & Engine winterization -

How about fresh / raw water / head / shower sump & A/C systems - did yard propose that work as well?
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 09:24 PM   #13
Guru
 
IRENE's Avatar
 
City: Port Angeles, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irene
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 738
Draining Raw Water from Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Because you hauled from the ship canal, all the water in your raw water cooling system is fresh water. I'd winterize right away, given the boat is and will be out of the water, and give the cold temps in the area.
I concur with the "right away" part. It's cold this week.

On my D4-260, there are 3 places in the raw water system (VP calls it seawater) that need to be drained per the manual. I do these, and also drain the front of the heat exchanger via removing the anode, by myself in about 10 minutes. If you want to pump antifreeze through the system also you certainly can; however, I expect you will be back in the water to soon to be concerned about corrosion.

I would not expect more than an hour labor charge to drain both engines. Perhaps their charge includes all of the normal end of season things, such as oil and filter changes?

I am not familiar with your generator - but that should be drained of raw water as well.

I would have them pump the non-toxic red antifreeze through the fresh water system, heads, etc. as others have said. It's quick and easy. This should not take more than an hour and 4-8 gallons of product.

Best Wishes
IRENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 10:33 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana View Post
Mike, what yard is the boat at?

Hi Peter, boat is at CSR.
MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 10:35 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRENE View Post
I concur with the "right away" part. It's cold this week.

On my D4-260, there are 3 places in the raw water system (VP calls it seawater) that need to be drained per the manual. I do these, and also drain the front of the heat exchanger via removing the anode, by myself in about 10 minutes. If you want to pump antifreeze through the system also you certainly can; however, I expect you will be back in the water to soon to be concerned about corrosion.

I would not expect more than an hour labor charge to drain both engines. Perhaps their charge includes all of the normal end of season things, such as oil and filter changes?

I am not familiar with your generator - but that should be drained of raw water as well.

I would have them pump the non-toxic red antifreeze through the fresh water system, heads, etc. as others have said. It's quick and easy. This should not take more than an hour and 4-8 gallons of product.

Best Wishes
Thanks for the detailed response! I'll ask the yard about this.
MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 10:35 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Mike
You mentioned Gen & Engine winterization -

How about fresh / raw water / head / shower sump & A/C systems - did yard propose that work as well?
They did not. I'll ask them why. Thanks!
MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 08:13 AM   #17
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB1969 View Post
Thanks everyone. Postponing the service until Alameda isn't a bad idea. Do yards typically let owners observe? Or is it like car dealerships where that typically isn't allowed or is frowned upon? In Alameda, boat is going to Grand.

As others have said, your yard's quote tracks OK. And then our yard quotes 50% more if the owner watches, and 100% more if the owner helps.



A bit tongue in cheek, but it does help to have established a rapport with the techs, and we've done that over the years. Our guys have been gracious enough to teach me lots of stuff over the years (nothing in my professional career prepared me to be a diesel mechanic, plumber, HVAC guy, electrician, etc.).

In return, I've become quick to recognize jobs I shouldn't do myself... so they still get a decent share of my business over time...

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 12:31 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Speedy Charlotte
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 677
For what it's worth, the yard has been running a heater in the engine room keeping the entire subfloor area well above freezing.
MichaelB1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 12:43 PM   #19
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB1969 View Post
For what it's worth, the yard has been running a heater in the engine room keeping the entire subfloor area well above freezing.
That is great.
__________________

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×