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Old 08-27-2010, 03:36 AM   #21
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

Marin,

the Perkins 6.354 are different from your Lehmans in one vital point. The injection pump is a CAV rotary pump where I believe the Lehmans have an inline pump. The rotary pump can be one nasty piece to bleed at times.

Speaking of bleeding the pump, I have never had to bleed the pump when changing filters on my twin 6.354's in the 10 years*I have had the boat.*Wriggle out the old ones, assemble and tighten new ones, open bleed screw on top of filter, manually operate the lift pump until clean fuel squirts out, tighten bleed screw and start.* Never ever had*to bleed the pump doing this.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:43 AM   #22
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

If an engine is a bear to bleed the solution could be at the DD dealer.

They have a hand pump , small & handy that can be either attached to the last filter vent , so all the air can be pulled out,

OR it can be installed before the filters and injection system to push fuel from end to end.

$60 or so.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:53 AM   #23
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

As for micron rating on primary and secondary filters, there was some discussion way back between Bill P and Steve D in PMM.
Bill advocated for a low micron reading on the primaries. His point of view was that the primaries would most likely be positioned on a bulkhead in the ER, where as the secondaries would be mounted on the engine. The easy access primaries could be changed in a hot ER without getting scorched on the engine in heavy seas (been there, done that) where as the secondaries would be tough to change in this situation. *I think Steve D opposed this as the secondaries would be idling as the primaries would be picking up anything that would be coming from the tank. He says you would be better off having the primaries at 20 or 30 micron (picking up the bigger particles) and having the secondaries as per the engine manufacturer specs filtering the finer stuff coming from the tank. This way each filter will be doing what it is best at.
We bought our new (to us) Ocean Alexander 50 in southern Europe and sailed her to Scandinavia this summer. It is more than 2000 nautical miles traversing parts of the Atlantic and North Sea. Not knowing the exact state of the fuel tanks, before setting off I had the fuel system rebuilt with dual Racor 1000's to each engine and 2 micron filter elements. No way would I be crawling between the engine and the fuel tanks in middle of the Bay of Biscay with the boat rocking and rolling and an engine hot from running continuously for tens of hours! (60 hours non-stop from northern Spain to the Channel Islands). I would much rather slip into the ER, turn the valve on the Racors and be going again even before the engines would be so starved of fuel they would stop.
When changing engine lube oil after 1000 nautical miles, I also changed primary fuel filters even if the vacuum needle hardly lifted from the rest position. The filter elements where covered with some black goo but mostly with rust particles.
*
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:13 PM   #24
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

Quote:
r-rossow wrote:
Marin,

the Perkins 6.354 are different from your Lehmans in one vital point. The injection pump is a CAV rotary pump where I believe the Lehmans have an inline pump. The rotary pump can be one nasty piece to bleed at times.


*
All the FL120s I've seen or seen comments about on various boating forums have had the inline injection pump.* CAV/Simms/Minimec (sp?).* But the operators manual for our engines indicates that the FL120 can be fitted with a CAV rotary injection pump and it and its parts are called out in the FL120 operation and service manuals.* But I've not met or corresponded with anyone who actually had one on their FL120.

*
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:31 AM   #25
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

Quote:
Marin wrote:

I'm curious what has to be done to bleed a Perkins of the type you have.

We have Lehman 120s and the bleeding process is pretty simple. Starting from the rear of the engine you bleed the aft secondary filter, then the forward secondary filter, then the aft bleed screw on the injection pump and then the forward bleed screw on the injection pump. That's pretty much it. There is no need to bleed the injectors themselves.

Is the Perkins significantly different than this?

-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 26th of August 2010 09:14:59 PM
Marin
As I recall from three years ago, Bob Smith informed us in his Lehman 120 class that you need to or it is helpful to bleed off the fuel pipes to each injector when re-assembling the pipes...ie if the pipe are ever completely empty of fuel.
I know the manual does not discuss it but I believe we did it in class.

When we wheeled the engine outside and started it up, it cranked up right away.
R.


*
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:55 PM   #26
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

I've heard this about bleeding the injectors on the FL120 but I've never done it and never had a startup problem after bleeding. The engine cranks a couple of times and lights off and that's that.

Most of the people I know with FL120s and who service them themselves don't bleed the injectors and say they have the same experience I do. The diesel shop we use doesn't bleed the injectors on an FL120 if the engine needs bleeding after a filter change or being run out of fuel (which I did once).

If installing new injection pipes between the pump and the injector it may be a different story. We've only had that done once when a pipe developed a tiny crack. I wasn't there when the shop installed the new pipe so I don't know if they bled the injector or not. But I can see where it would make sense to do so.
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:20 PM   #27
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Secondary fuel filter?

When changing* on engine fuel filters on my Perkins Sabres I only use the hand lift pump to fill the filters. I never have to bleed pump or injector lines. It is simple and quick.

-- Edited by sunchaser on Saturday 28th of August 2010 06:21:17 PM

-- Edited by sunchaser on Saturday 28th of August 2010 06:22:23 PM
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:54 AM   #28
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

I will try it for myself, and I will let y'all know.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:45 AM   #29
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

"I'm curious what has to be done to bleed a Perkins of the type you have.

We have Lehman 120s and the bleeding process is pretty simple. Starting from the rear of the engine you bleed the aft secondary filter, then the forward secondary filter, then the aft bleed screw on the injection pump and then the forward bleed screw on the injection pump. That's pretty much it. There is no need to bleed the injectors themselves.

Is the Perkins significantly different than this?"

A Perkins is quite a bit easier to bleed than a FL 120 in my experience. Much easier and faster.
Similar proceedure but the Perkins is more forgiving in that it will self bleed to some extent whereas a Lehman will not.
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:18 PM   #30
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

The addition of the Parker-Hamilin secondary spin-on adaptors makes a big difference in bleed time on an FL120 after a filter change because you no longer have to fill the filters with the manual lever on the fuel pump. Another thing that helps, at least on our boat, is that we can fill our Racor primaries-- -which are mounted low--- by opening the transfer valve on a saddle tanks. This gravity-feeds fuel into the Racors, which partially empty themselves when the tops are taken off for element changing. So the filters can be filled with fuel right to the top, the lid put on and screwed down, and that's that. There must be some air trapped in the top of the Racor but the engine seems to be able to deal with that as it never stumbles when started up after a filter change.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:31 PM   #31
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RE: Secondary fuel filter?

I now have an electric pump in parallel and I can use that to pull fuel into the Racors or push fuel thru the engine filters and pump for bleeding. So now the Lehman is pretty quick to bleed out.
But comparing the manual method with the*OEM lift pump, using OEM filters, the Perk is easier than the FL. At least I think so.
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