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Old 09-18-2014, 09:42 PM   #21
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I thought most of the Hatts, epecially the larger older ones, were 32V. Later models, are Now 24V i think , at least for the starter systems and then maybe 12v. That would keep the wire size down over 12v so the batts could be located farther away yet not have to go nuts on wire size.

Parallel wires between the batteries and the starter if needed to keep Vdrop under control. If not enough room to directly connect parallel to the starter then use a small buss bar or power post with a short, heavy wire to make the final short run.

I have no idea what is practical aboard your boat, just some ideas, good or bad.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:24 AM   #22
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FF, the rbs tech spects had the following:
Continuous Rating 500A
Intermittent Rating 700A (5 min)
Cranking Rating 10 sec 2500A
Cranking Rating 1 min 1100A

Its tight, but should be good.... And what you said about voltage is spot on, i have a feeling tha the cranking amps were high because of small cables.... They are size 0 going all over.... Im going 4/0 to keep voltage drop minimal....


C lectric, I noticed that Guest has switches set up to take paralleled cables on its diesel engine line....

I have in my hands now a new starter, I hope to get down there this weekend and see how she behaves.... Unfortunately, its only 34F here this morning, I guess that I should be watching the COLD cranking amps! :-P
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:48 PM   #23
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I guess that I should be watching the COLD cranking amps! :-P


Just install a block heater , they are easy to install and not very expensive.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:58 PM   #24
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I just so happen to have 6 Kim Hotstart Recirculating block heaters in stock, complete with thermostats..... Now I just need to put a contactor linked to my cellular monitoring equipement, and I can start it up by text message..... or maybe I am geeking out too much!
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:56 AM   #25
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. or maybe I am geeking out too much!

Depends on the distance to the boat , the required warm up time and the OAT

(outside air temp)
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:14 AM   #26
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In post 12, you tested the starter at home.
What was the starter turning?
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:25 PM   #27
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bluebyu, it sounds dumb, because its not overly scientific, but I use a photo tach, and see how quickly it gets up to a good rev, and usually call my local heavy truck shop buddies to tell me what it should be spinning at....

I had bought a Bucket truck at work a while back, started like garrrrbage.... Just a little cummins B5.9 six with 12v, would struggle to start.... Pulled the starter and it whirred up slowly to 510RPM without even a twitch when on the ground upon power up..... I brought it to the rebuilders, he hooked it up and laughed. I came back the day later, he said it was burnt to a crisp, hooked it up and watched it jump 4" off the counter with power applied. Same with some big Perkins, midsized AC, Cat 3208's, Volvo 16L's, a good starter motor should be shockingly powerful.....

I will have to post elec pics soon.... I keep finding nightmares....
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:10 PM   #28
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I would assume the starter amps spinning free versus spinning the engine would be drastically different.
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:41 PM   #29
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I would assume the starter amps spinning free versus spinning the engine would be drastically different.
The harder the starer has to turn the higher the amp draw goes up.Most starters are rated at unloaded amps.




Nothing worse than having the wrong size relay and a run away starter motor.I watched one burn up while trying to get the 2000 degree battery connection loose.It was on my hot rodded Jeep with a built 304 V8.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:27 PM   #30
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You are getting onto the right track with Blue Seas gear. Use the RBS but also have the manual switch at the helm.

You can isolate by manually turning the yellow switch in the ER, or flicking the rocker switch at the helm. Also use an ACR.

First pics is my ER config for 2 start batts and house bank, then the auto parallel & isolate at helm, and lastly the RBS and ACR components
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:45 AM   #31
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>The harder the starer has to turn the higher the amp draw goes up.Most starters are rated at unloaded amps.<

Larger ones are rated at 9.5V as the starter mfg are in the real world.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:06 PM   #32
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Amperage will no doubt go up as load does as well, I was just noting that a really fried starter motor is unmistakable when pulled from the block.

Brian, nice rig, I like the buss bars between the relays and switches. I am looking for the same thing, the rocker at the helm, as well as an indecator that the relay is kicking in the House batteries as well.

Some part of me wants to wire straight from the starter batteries to the starter for maximum oomph, but the professional in me lets me know that that's moronic and unsafe.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:18 PM   #33
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I
Parallel wires between the batteries and the starter if needed to keep Vdrop under control.
Unless the cables to be paralleled are the exact same length and gauge and the connections have the same resistance, the current in the cables will be unbalanced because of resistance. A better plan is to use the necessary sized cables in the first place.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:21 PM   #34
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You are getting onto the right track with Blue Seas gear. Use the RBS but also have the manual switch at the helm.

You can isolate by manually turning the yellow switch in the ER, or flicking the rocker switch at the helm. Also use an ACR.

First pics is my ER config for 2 start batts and house bank, then the auto parallel & isolate at helm, and lastly the RBS and ACR components
I see that these relays only cost $160 or so. I think I will get one for my starting circuit which came from the factory (it's been nearly fifteen years) without a switch for the starting battery. Adding a manual switch would be difficult without a lot more cable.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:13 PM   #35
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When adding a switch to a starting circuit, give thought to access during a runaway starter-induced fire. I've learned of several instances of a fried solenoid/relay engaging the starter autonomously and causing a fire. The only way to stop it is to remove electrical power from the start circuit. That could be hard to do if you need to enter a burning ER to do it.

You can't always do it easily by going forward or aft of the batteries, but sometimes running the cable up to a cabinet in the saloon or galley will work.
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:23 PM   #36
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Batteries in the engine room will not last too long as 120F+ of the engine room is not good for them.

The 180F next to an operating engine is even worse!
I've often had batts in engine compartment. Currently all our batts are in there. Never noticed an appreciable reduction in batt life as compared to batts away from engines. Admittedly all batts are not right up against engine. But, they all are confined in containers (very breathable containers) on lower levels of the ER.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:41 AM   #37
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When adding a switch to a starting circuit, give thought to access during a runaway starter-induced fire. I've learned of several instances of a fried solenoid/relay engaging the starter autonomously and causing a fire. The only way to stop it is to remove electrical power from the start circuit. That could be hard to do if you need to enter a burning ER to do it.
It can be even harder if you're away from the boat.

I have never heard or seen firsthand of a runaway starter or a starter operating by itself, but I suppose it's possible.

I'm thinking more and more of adding the remote switch. I'll check the boat this weekend for a good location and the cable size so I can order the correct lugs.
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Old 09-25-2014, 10:27 AM   #38
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A bad starter might be my problem with my port engine. It has started becoming harder to start over the past few years and won't start with the starting battery. Starboard spins and starts quick. I have to add the house bank to get the port going. I've cleaned and checked cables, even added another ground and nothing seems to help.

I'll pull the starter and have it checked.

Great thread guys, I'm learning from TF and that's a good thing.
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:01 PM   #39
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15 years of wrenching on diesels has taught me that the starters go bad sooner than a well kept engine..... I was taught way back when: "most carburetor problems are electrical", true for gassers, but still pertinent for starting and charging systems....

Art, thats good to know for temps.... I have to take exception to the rig I have now, where the PO jammed a piece of asbestos between the port cylinder bank exhaust riser and the batteries!!!
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