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Old 03-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #21
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Thanks everyone, I have to leave the boat in the morning and will be gone for a month. When I get back I will bleed the system and see if I can get the air out.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #22
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Another D.I.Y. success story: when we bought our Nova 12 years ago, the boat had no steering as the seal in the auto-pilot pump was bad and all the oil had seeped out. Pulled the pump, installed new seals, bled the system and voila, all fixed for pennies.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:54 PM   #23
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Update.

I have the manual for the Hynautics steering system on our boart. I bleed the system twice exactly as described in the manual. I found no air in the system at all. The manual specificaly says there will be no hard stop of the wheel. It says that once the wheel is hard over that the relief valve will unload and the wheel will turn. That is exactly what happens. I checked the chart for wheel rotation. I have 5 1/2 turns lock to lock. That is exactly what the manual says I should have if there is no air in the system.

So I am back to square one again with the steering problem. I am seriously considering the angle on the trailing edge of the rudder to see if that helps. Any other suggestions?
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
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READTOGO,

You have 5.5 turns L to L and probably a fully deployed rudder angle of 30 to 35 degrees. No wonder your helm has low response.

Willy has a big rudder but also 3 turns L to L and 45 degrees deflection. For you I'd be looking for 3.5 to 4 turns L to L, 45 degrees deflection and a bigger rudder. Three turns L to L if you stay at hull speed.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
...Willy has a big rudder but also 3 turns L to L and 45 degrees deflection. For you I'd be looking for 3.5 to 4 turns L to L, 45 degrees deflection and a bigger rudder. Three turns L to L if you stay at hull speed.
Eric: Our KK42 is 4 turns L to L. At hull speed, if I went L to L, why would I loose the ability to turn the wheel 4 times L to L? Granted I may be no longer be at hull speed. Just asking.
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:02 AM   #26
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I think I know what your asking.

I suspect the words aren't working here. I mean that if he dosn't go faster than hull speed 3 turns lock to lock would be OK. With a big rudder and fast steering the effort to turn the wheel may be excessive .. especially w big following seas.

If he went to 45 degrees of deflection he'd loose mechanical advantage and if he went for faster response he'd loose even more mechanical advantage . He will need more mechanical advantage w fewer turns L to L all other things remaining the same.

Even w my big rudder I go to full lock (the end of the ram extension) in big following seas. If I had to do this for several hours and had slower steering I'd be yawing all over the place and at the mercy of my hull design.

Two turns, 45 Degrees and power steering would be the ticket.
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:20 AM   #27
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thanks manyboats , I understand you, good explanation
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:10 AM   #28
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Eric: Got it. Thanks.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:12 PM   #29
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Update

I made a rudder extension and installed it today. I used a sugestion from FF. (thanks FF) I made the area of the rudder bigger but also put an 1 1/2" angle on the trailing edge. I made the extension of 1/4" aluminum. It consisted of two plates, one of which I drilled and tapped. Then using 1/4 X 20 bolts I attached it to the rudder basicly like a vice. I did it this way for two reasons. 1 I did not want to make a permanent modification untill I knew it would work. 2 I did not want to pull the boat to do it. My rudder size went from 2.4 square feet to 3.5 square feet. The difference is amazing. It handles like a completely different boat. I can now turn the boat around in a circle in less than two boat lengths. I was doing tight donuts around a marker on the ICW for fun. People probably thought I was drunk or crazy. When we came back to our slip it was a piece of cake to get in. We usually have to stop and back up to get turned in, and even then it is close getting in just backing up once. This time I was able to just pull up and turn in. I hope to get an underwater camera next week and will post pics of it installed. Now the plan is to have a welder make a permenant mod at the next haulout. Here are two pics of what I made. The last pic is of the stock rudder.

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Old 07-07-2013, 09:04 AM   #30
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I built a thistle rudder and turn it to 60 to 70 degrees and I now have boat that turns on a dime.
I will say it can be a challenge because hard over is not your default turn any more it is just to sharp. I know I had fear of what could happen at speed with that much turning power but it act like a brake if you go hard over at 7 knots but still give a tight turn maybe 60ft radius at 4-5 knots.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #31
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"I know I had fear of what could happen at speed with that much turning power but it act like a brake if you go hard over"

Most rudders work as a brake after 35deg , and most are built with stops not to go over that range.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:22 PM   #32
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All rudders produce drag at all angles of deflection. With my large rudder I can turn 90 degrees into a slip from the fairway (unless it's really narrow) right into the slip and the rudder drag is not an issue .. or even detectable "seat of the pants".

If your rudder is too small it will be much less effective at all angles of deflection and it will take less deflection to stall or develop too much turbulence on it's backside to be very effective. At very slow speeds like 3 knots and w a really big rudder ... rudder effectiveness may be very usable almost to 90 degrees.

Basically the 35 degree rule is for faster boats w smaller rudders for good high speed performance. And the rule applies fully there.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:31 AM   #33
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Get rid of all that crap fouling your prop and shaft and you will probably be equally amazed at the increase in performance.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:35 AM   #34
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Yes the prop had a little bit of grass on it from the last time out. I just hadn't cleaned it off from the last outing when I took the pic. I always make sure the running gear is clean before we leave the dock.
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