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Old 05-22-2015, 01:30 PM   #81
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"And aren't diesels supposed to be run hard? Not brutally hard, but with a load? That was what used to be. Has that changed?"

Not in the slightest ,,Working diesels live longer than loafing diesels.

Half throttle to 3/4 will give a quite long engine service life.

The Volvo MD 2 had various ratings from Volvo, from 18 to 25 , as the years went by , with NO change to the engine .

At &000lbs it should be easy enough for a 5K cruise , and remember on the ICW all distances are statute miles , so you can tell everybody you do 6 , just like the sail boats.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:57 PM   #82
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Janice, make sure you have a filter between the fuel supply and the injection pump. My Kubota's (Onan) lift pump just failed and the pump motor filled up with fuel (nothing like having points arcing at the bottom of a container of fuel) and the only thing stopping all the crud from making its way into the injection pump was the on-engine fuel filter. Whatever pump you have to get fuel to your engine, buy a spare or a rebuild kit. I bought a Walbro pump to replace the exciting Onan pump.

Also, questioning if I really needed a lift pump, I tried running the motor without a pump and it wouldn't go, even after bleeding properly. It needs a lift pump and a clean source of fuel.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:45 PM   #83
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Amen to clean source of fuel!

Also I'm see'in a small pice of flex pipe between the exhaust manifold and the riser/cooler. You were right Janice .. you did have the perfect place for the riser/cooler once turned sideways. The sideways mount means the flange will be subject to bending loads instead of twisting loads. Actually not as different as I just thought. A flexable joint of some kind seems in order. Perhaps the perfect flex joint exists on fwd cars .. perhaps in a ball joint style. That's what happened when the exhaust went from straight back to off at right angles.

I'm still upset over the thought of you running an open air cooled exhaust. I've seen guys run copper tubing around (many times) an exposed manifold like that (don't know how it worked) but I'd really like you to put a water jacketed exhaust manifold up as a high priority. Beta and others make them so it's not like they are unobtainium. But at the risk of sounding negative or more negative I'll stop ragg'in you about it.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:52 PM   #84
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actually, a trawler with a thorium reactor would be even better...

the safety scram option would pump the salt over the side... A little more salt won't hurt much but 800c temp salt would make quite a splash, but that's when all goes wrong, and hopefully that wouldn't happen.

Imagine having all the power you like, and the source is waste from mining operations. The reactor they ran in Oak Ridge TN for 4 years had more fuel when they stopped it than when they started it. I guess after 5 years you take some out and share it?

That would be the life. Especially on a steel trawler.

I wonder if it has to be held level? What about a storm. Maybe it wouldn't work that well all shook up.

Not all ideas are good ones...
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Old 05-22-2015, 05:04 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
Janice, make sure you have a filter between the fuel supply and the injection pump. My Kubota's (Onan) lift pump just failed and the pump motor filled up with fuel (nothing like having points arcing at the bottom of a container of fuel) and the only thing stopping all the crud from making its way into the injection pump was the on-engine fuel filter. Whatever pump you have to get fuel to your engine, buy a spare or a rebuild kit. I bought a Walbro pump to replace the exciting Onan pump.

Also, questioning if I really needed a lift pump, I tried running the motor without a pump and it wouldn't go, even after bleeding properly. It needs a lift pump and a clean source of fuel.
Yes, I do have a Racor fuel filter inline and use an electronic fuel pump (leftover from the gasoline beast after the mechanical one died on that motor)

It's good to know I need a pump. I like having one for the benefit of bleeding the system. It's a lot easier turning on a switch to force fuel through.

I have not installed any sort of fuel polishing system. That's on the list but not so high. At present she's only got her port tank full of fuel. 35 gallons though the label says 55. I've heard other Schuckers like mine hold the same in each of our two tanks.

Of course to balance that, my 30 gallon water tank holds 50 gallons. I filled the tank one milk jug at a time just so that were I ever charge for water I didn't want to be told I took 50 gallons when the tank only held 30. I remember thinking "If this thing held 50, I'd not check -- thank goodness it's only 30" ... then I went past 30, and 35. She topped out at just better than 50 gallons.

That's a good thing. Except it's right on the nose so with the addition of my chain rode and anchor... well balance is good about one week into the two weeks between fill-ups.

Fuel tanks are outbound in the galley, just aft of the engine.

I took the starboard one, ran a lot of water through her along with TSP (3 large boxes) -- theory is she might be a water tank for showers. Water smells fine though I do need to replace the hose from deck to tank. 4' long ... that's permeated with the smell of gasoline.

Heavy metals aren't my thing but showers are. With long hair there's nothing like a nice shower at the end of the day. Or mid-day if it's hot.

I've got the one external fuel pump -- one for cars at about $45 nowadays. I am almost positive the Kubota has one internal. Otherwise how would the tractor run?

My external is inline also, so if I flip a switch it pumps. Of course I'll have to verify all fittings are fine so I don't leak diesel in the bilge.

When I had the clogged fuel pick-up line I turned my pump around and back flushed with Sea-Foam, alcohol and Deep-Creep (which is Seafoam in spray form) ... none of that worked but I did try before calling TowBoatUS. Sigh.

I didn't have a way to get to that pick-up point then. It is located under the deck in the cockpit. Someone thought that was a Good Idea. They were mistaken.

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Old 05-22-2015, 05:21 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Amen to clean source of fuel!

Also I'm see'in a small pice of flex pipe between the exhaust manifold and the riser/cooler. You were right Janice .. you did have the perfect place for the riser/cooler once turned sideways. The sideways mount means the flange will be subject to bending loads instead of twisting loads. Actually not as different as I just thought. A flexable joint of some kind seems in order. Perhaps the perfect flex joint exists on fwd cars .. perhaps in a ball joint style. That's what happened when the exhaust went from straight back to off at right angles.

I'm still upset over the thought of you running an open air cooled exhaust. I've seen guys run copper tubing around (many times) an exposed manifold like that (don't know how it worked) but I'd really like you to put a water jacketed exhaust manifold up as a high priority. Beta and others make them so it's not like they are unobtainium. But at the risk of sounding negative or more negative I'll stop ragg'in you about it.
I too am interested in how the stainless will seat ... the tank itself should be cool to the touch so that's a good thing.

And I'll keep your comments re the exhaust manifold in The List for future consideration. For now, I'm working toward an expeditious completion of the job so I can cruise.

The copper was mentioned for this Kubota incidentally. I remember that discussion though obviously it was set aside. But I know that the boys thought about that.

Another guy was pulling strongly for a radiator and fans. That would have required me to leave open the forward access panel in my cabin while underway. I'm glad that one went by the wayside. That proponent was a car gearhead (and I don't use the term gearhead pejoratively) ... I understand it to mean an expert at car motors.

Well, I could talk about my boat all afternoon. She's my favorite thing, except the Kidlet and Grand of course. Instead, I'll go read about other people's boats. That's fun too, and gives me ideas on how to make mine better.
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Old 05-22-2015, 05:49 PM   #87
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I'm pretty sure the Kubota doesn't have a mechanical lift pump. I can't see one in your photos either. My electric lift pump is wired to the fuel shutoff solenoid so it only pumps when the solenoid is selected to on. Yours would have to be wired to the "ignition" switch, whichever switch you use to power the glow plugs? You might need a gate on your power lever to prevent you going from running to idle and inadvertently moving the lever too far and thereby shutting off the fuel/engine.

A Racor is good but you should have a secondary on-engine filter (I have 2 microns) directly before the injection pump. No device should be "inside" the fuel filter. I am using a Walbro fuel pump now as the Onan baked.
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:05 PM   #88
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This is how the Onan genset is configured:
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:07 PM   #89
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Another thought on the exhaust manifold.

A tube or long box right on top of the exhaust manifold w holes or very short tubes pointing down at the manifold plumbed to an exhaust air blower would extract much (perhaps even more than half) of the manifold heat and rout it outside. In Florida excessive engine compartment heat likely would raise the cabin temperature from the usual uncomfortable to maybe the unbearable point. If the air right above the exh man was fairly still an exhaust fan may be a great help. No substitute for water cooling but having options is good. And the fan and plumbing would be dirt cheap and east for you to do.
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Old 05-23-2015, 10:33 AM   #90
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No need to go to all the trouble of a special box for that. Just mount the intake line of the blower or the blower itself right next to or above the manifold.

I still don't even understand the need for this complicated, custom made water cooled exhaust thing. Why didn't they just make a standard mixing elbow going to your Aqua Lift muffler?
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Old 05-23-2015, 11:43 AM   #91
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Bill,
What works best is not always best. Janice has some of her soul into this cooler box and most likely so do some of her friends. Looks like she has some kind of history w this thing. If you ever had a girlfriend that you were very fond of for some period of time and she was not good for you and you needed to part ways w her you may have been in a situation a little like Janice and her cooler. And her friends probably put in a lot of time and mental energy into this cooler.

They can't just huck it out! I would but I'm not attached to it. Well maybe a little. In time it will seem less important. The attachment I mean. And as it seems more troublesome over time the attachment may loose some of it's grip and the horizon will present a view that is more like your post #90. Sometimes projects need some closure and completion before other things can be viewed as desirable and be sought out.
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Old 05-23-2015, 07:54 PM   #92
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Yes, I do have two 4" blowers in the bilge... The vents on the side of boat are quite big too.



(I had an issue with mosquitoes and a friend suggested the blasted critters were coming in my vents so I fixed that.)
Article here: Janice142 article Mosquitoes (engine room vent screening)

One faces forward and the other aft, so there is air circulation even without the blowers. But yes, you're correct that the blowers will remove a lot of heat and quickly. When running the Beast (gas engine) I'd turn on the blowers for a half hour or so prior to and after shutdown which did make a difference.

Florida is hot -- that's for certain.

And too Eric is correct. It's not so much as invested affection as time. I want this job finished and if later changes need to be made, well, that's okay too. At a certain point one simply wants to stop tweaking.

And too, I tend to complicate stuff. Like I wanted an outlet in my pilothouse (AC) for the Christmas lights. I cannot tell you how many hours of thought on how to run the wires I put in. Then finally... well (there will be an article) but here's the result:

It's not an outlet but rather a way to pass the cord through to the outlet in my head. Simple, cheap and it works.



And Eric is correct: completion is more critical than perfection at this point. The mechanic will be aboard my boat Tuesday morning.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:00 AM   #93
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"whichever switch you use to power the glow plugs?"

Any glow plugs are usually wired to a push button as they are only needed 15-30 seconds for a cold start.

Glow plugs do not operate after engine start., and are seldom required for a restart on a warm engine.

Many ignition switches will not pass the amperage required for 3 or 4 glow plugs , so seldom are wired thru the key switch.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:45 AM   #94
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FF wrote;
"Many ignition switches will not pass the amperage required for 3 or 4 glow plugs , so seldom are wired thru the key switch."

Mine are. Had no idea it was unusual. Only 4 cylinders though.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:15 AM   #95
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Many ignition switches are only rated for 10 to 15 amps.....hard to imagine without a solenoid that they are powering ignition requirements plus glow plugs....unless only for 15 to 30 seconds or so.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:22 AM   #96
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ManyBoats,
The compression and combustion of the engine should provide enough heat to keep the tips of the glowplugs glowing and working. Your engine may be newer, and require power though. My diesel knowledge is a bit old now.

That was one of the benefits of the old school diesel engine. Once it was started, no power was needed to keep it running. There are a few exceptions, and most are diesels that have a solenoid valve that shuts off fuel to the injector pump. Cat engines require power on the fuel valve or they stop...

The Mercury Diesel Outboard has sparkplugs... that's a first for me, and it looks like a beefed up gas burner with an added diesel injector.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:18 AM   #97
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psneeld I agree,
My ignition switch is probably operating a solenoid.
In the thirties we operated auto starter motors by hand .. actually by foot. And cars in the day were 6 volt. Didn't go 12 until 55. So that was double the current.
I use my glow plugs always for less than 10 seconds.
Several years ago I took a glow plug out and turned it on for 10 seconds. It got red hot just like a stove .. probably a little brighter than that. That convinced me 10 seconds was indeed plenty of time ... for my engine .. at least. And my Mitsu starts instantly.
Fred you'd be pleased to know that at the Willard rendezvous there was a 36 Willard w an International engine in his boat. He likes it a lot and is on his way to Alaska now.

stubones99,
Is it perhaps in some way a "dual fuel" engine and uses gasoline to start with?
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:52 AM   #98
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"Fred you'd be pleased to know that at the Willard rendezvous there was a 36 Willard w an International engine in his boat. He likes it a lot and is on his way to Alaska now."

IF he used the dry stack & keel cooler , and rebuilt commercial grade tranny ,my guess he has under $5,000 in his repower instead of $ 20,000 $30,000.+


There is Cruising , and there is Yachting , sounds like he is a Cruiser.

Almost all the engines with glow plugs have pre combustion chamber design.

They are hard to start as the heat of compression has too much cylinder head metal around the chamber , so it take loads of cranking to get it hot enough to compression ignite the fuel.

Only a bit of heat and the fuel burns , squirting into the actual cylinder , and after only a few power strokes everey thing is warm enough to continue to run.

These engines usually do not diesel knock as loud as the std style , but have fallen out of favor as the pre combustion adds to the surface area of the combustion chamber surface , a no no with the Air Police.

If the new heavy fuel spark ignition engines becomes popular , light noise free , and very fuel efficient will be here , tho they may require DEF to operate.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:22 AM   #99
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"They are hard to start as the heat of compression has too much cylinder head metal around the chamber , so it take loads of cranking to get it hot enough to compression ignite the fuel." I thought we'd wear out the starter motor before we got to Alaska.

Re the pre-chamber
"These engines usually do not diesel knock as loud as the std style" Yup .. both the Perkins and the Mitsu are a bit quieter. And my direct injected Yanmar was noisy.

"There is Cruising , and there is Yachting , sounds like he is a Cruiser."
Most of us are boaters but we can label him "Cruiser" as he's en-route to Alaska.

That was interesting about the pre-chamber and the glow plugs. My engine is 10 yrs old and a Tier II but only 107 cu in so I'm guessing it's size permits the per-chamber. I remember reading about it in a magazine when I was working in a powerhouse in Alaska (1960). There was an article about the "new" pre-chamber in an article about the 107 Perkins. Nice to have these features that I consider a plus in my small engine.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:30 AM   #100
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I have found that glow plugs are on almost all diesels, pre-chamber or direct injection.

Deutz cut out the pre-chamber in about 1967-68 when they went direct injection. The 05 series with pre-chamber was much quieter, smoother, but not quite as powerful.

The 06 series engines were all direct and a bit more power & noisy. I've lit the glow plugs for 15 seconds and easily cranked them with 6" of snow on top.

The glow plug has a ceramic center insulator, and if it's working properly, will start quickly. It has nothing to do whether it is direct or indirect injection. If a diesel is hard to start, check when cold but ok to restart, then check the glow plugs.

On a side note, After Deutz stopped their indirect injection engines, Honda came out with their CVCC engines which was an indirect injection gasoline engine, with two separate chambers, one rich, and the other lean. They ran that way for quite a few years.

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