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Old 04-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #21
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This prohibition-era, previously-movie-director-owned boat was originally gas-powered. Now diesel-powered because suitable engines are now available.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #22
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Art-- If the Tollycraft styling is what one likes I dont' think there's a better-built production boat out there. Second-best might be Uniflite.
I've owned a classic Uni; twin screw V-drive, 1973 FB sedan fisher. I do feel Tollycraft boats are (were) better built than Uniflite... but only by a little. Hatteras built (builds) some real nice cruisers too. GB is of course an iconic brand and very well built also, although I really don't like their exterior design looks and particularly their lack of bow flare. Different strokes...Different folks!
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #23
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We have done some gas to diesel re powers in the past, About 15 years ago going from twin 454s to 4 LH Yanmars was very popular, Marcus @ TAD in White marsh VA has a good deal on rebuilt 210 & 250 B series Cummings , You will need a gen set also, Some of the Carvers had the same Diesel engine package from the factory, I think a 100k may be on the high side, In this economy if you shop you should be able to cut the labor down to 12k and 30k in engines & parts, Most of the yards in NC were slow this past winter, But spring is here now so the deals will be a lot harder to find, I would think that one of the main deciding points would be the condition of the installed machinery for a start then a cost of repair / replace vs Diesel re power. Craig
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:17 PM   #24
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GB is of course an iconic brand and very well built also, although I really don't like their exterior design looks and particularly their lack of bow flare. Different strokes...Different folks!
I'm not a big fan of GB's design aesthetically, either, and yes, the lack of bow flare makes for a VERY wet boat.

I forgot about Hatteras. From everything I'm given to understand another excellent boat although I have only ever seen one (that I know of), a pretty big one a couple of docks over from us. The same guy who got American Marine into fiberglass with their Grand Banks line (and built the molds and personally supervised the layup of every GB hull for the first year) also helped Hatteras get started in fiberglass.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:13 AM   #25
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I'm not a big fan of GB's design aesthetically, either, and yes, the lack of bow flare makes for a VERY wet boat.

I forgot about Hatteras. From everything I'm given to understand another excellent boat although I have only ever seen one (that I know of), a pretty big one a couple of docks over from us. The same guy who got American Marine into fiberglass with their Grand Banks line (and built the molds and personally supervised the layup of every GB hull for the first year) also helped Hatteras get started in fiberglass.
I've been keeping my eye on a 60's twin screw 41' Hatteras sport fisher for a few years. This Hatt was originally owned by CG. 95 they repowered w/ brand new Detroit 6V53T for her sale on public boater market. Fellow purchased her and used for a few years fishing, unfortunately debilitating item befell him. So... since bout 2001 she's been a dock queen w/ just over 700 hrs on her 1995 New Detroit engines. Owner has kept her paid up and 6 month bottom cleaning, zinc changed. The boat's been for sale since 2009. I called him then, his price was way too high, I had a tour of the boat by an attendant of his. Interior was pretty good condition, engines pristine, exterior basically OK. Since then the price has dropped way down and a low ball offer by some other buyer was accepted, but the deal fell through when buyer placed too many stipulations on the owner. Sooo... I recently stopped by to walk the finger docks next to her. Man, in three years weather really has taken its toll on the wide open to the elements exterior. Much refinishing is now required on entire top section and bridge enclosure canvas has gone bad. Hull needs painting too and swim step needs repair. I'd only take this Hatt at fire sale bargan price - if at all. That's the way of so many boats that have become dock fixtures for one of many reasons during the last 10 +/- years. One HUGE reason is fuel costs. Many boat owners simply can't afford to often spend hundreds of $$$ for a relatively short cruise.

Unfortunate power-boat-user market, with no end in sight for increasing fuel costs!!
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:02 AM   #26
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Doing the loop and Bahamas would be doable with the existing power.

A HUGE portion of the loop is in Canada and limited to 5 or 6 mph (10 klicks)

So the fuel burn will be almost as good as most diesels at the same speed.

Gas is only expensive IF you actually use the HP , want to cruise at 20K, 1/2 mpg with luck.

Cruise at 6K , and enjoy the quiet.

A good auto pilot is required for slow cruise as the rudders are probably small to enable plaining.

YOU CAN NOT AFFORD an engine swop if you can not do the work.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #27
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Doing the loop and Bahamas would be doable with the existing power.

A HUGE portion of the loop is in Canada and limited to 5 or 6 mph (10 klicks)

So the fuel burn will be almost as good as most diesels at the same speed.

Gas is only expensive IF you actually use the HP , want to cruise at 20K, 1/2 mpg with luck.

Cruise at 6K , and enjoy the quiet.

A good auto pilot is required for slow cruise as the rudders are probably small to enable plaining.

YOU CAN NOT AFFORD an engine swop if you can not do the work.
Ditto!
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:06 AM   #28
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Uniflites are 25 cents on the dollar here. The blister problem coupled with our warmer water destroyed their value. I've seen them with blisters all the way up to the gunwales and in the yard they can get deep into the glass. The fix is very expensive and you'll never recoup the cost at your selling.

To the contrary, the boat in the slip next to me is a Uni and he has zero blisters and has owned it about 12 years now. I like the lines of that boat too.

When I was a manager at a dealership the should I buy diesel question always came up. For the customer who trades every four to six years and has under 100K on the odometer, I always said no. The reason is the upgrade cost of the diesel option at that time was around 3,000. The fuel costs are about the same so the only benefit is the MPG savings. At best that would be, and we are speaking about a 1 ton truck mostly, going from 14 MPG on a gas to 18 MPG on diesel. That 4 MPG savings doesn't compute for a 3000 price increase. AND, I'm not talking about resale value which for diesels is lower so the actual swing might be 4500. You would have to own it over ten years and drive it over 600,000 miles to see daylight, which you can with a diesel truck.

Boating is a different scenario. Fuel costs for diesel is lower due to the tax savings. We don't pay road tax on diesel fuel but we pay them on gas. Therefore, the fuel savings costs are far greater owning a diesel powered vessel. That Uni next to me has twin Chrysler 440's. They idle at 12 GPH and WOT IS 36 GPH each engine. Gasoline at the fuel dock is around 4.80 a gallon and diesel 3.60. He spends $350.00 to go to Catalina for a weekend in fuel.

My twin diesel 42' GB will burn 22 gallons for that trip to and from. That's under $80.00 for me.

I'd look at the numbers and do what Marin said. Find a good diesel powered boat and have fun cruising the Bahamas.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:02 PM   #29
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One last thing about Gasoline. The USG and the EPA is ruining gasoline's power by adding ethanol. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equal a gallon of unleaded regular gasoline. When you dilute gasoline with 10% ethanol you lose power and that means MPG. Ethanol eats rubber and some plastics. It's very corrosive and it absorbs water. The Boat US group is fighting right now to stop E15 from happening. That will cause even more damage to gasoline powered engines. Keep in mind, boat engines work much harder than car engines and with all that stress adding more ethanol shortens the life of that engine.

I'm predicting a bad future for gas powered boats, especially for brokers and sellers.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:04 PM   #30
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Tens of thousands of gas powered, new and old, large cruisers, houseboats, pontoon boats, ski boats and fishing boats cruise the inland and near shore waters of the US. Many more than diesels. There are reasons for this:
  • Lower front end costs
  • Lighter
  • Acceptable fuel burn for weekenders
  • Easy to repair
Now if it weren't for that darned E10/15-----------
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #31
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Sunchaser, I agree. I loved my gas boat. 24 kph @ 5000 RPM and cruising at 18 kts @ 3000 while getting 2 MPG on a 11,000 pound 30' cabin cruiser. It was a single 360 Chyrsler I repowered from a 318 and it got better fuel mileage with the 360.

I had a fuel computer onboard that measured fuel flow to 99.9% accuracy, speed, temp and depth and had total fuel burn, etc. When E10 happened, the plastic flow meter that was inline melted shut. I had to call the factory and they finally formulated new parts that could withstand ethanol. The part was an aircraft part and they didn't have ethanol in gas at that time.

I was lucky i caught it because when I removed that part, it was soft already.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:15 PM   #32
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Sunchaser, I agree. I loved my gas boat. 24 kph @ 5000 RPM and cruising at 18 kts @ 3000 while getting 2 MPG on a 11,000 pound 30' cabin cruiser. It was a single 360 Chyrsler I repowered from a 318 and it got better fuel mileage with the 360.

I had a fuel computer onboard that measured fuel flow to 99.9% accuracy, speed, temp and depth and had total fuel burn, etc. When E10 happened, the plastic flow meter that was inline melted shut. I had to call the factory and they finally formulated new parts that could withstand ethanol. The part was an aircraft part and they didn't have ethanol in gas at that time.

I was lucky i caught it because when I removed that part, it was soft already.
Can't you get ethanol free gas?
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:55 PM   #33
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Not here in CA. The FTC says it can contain 9.99999% ethanol and that doesn't have to be disclosed. I think there is some cal epa reg too because it happened in 1988 about with no word at all. I even asked the fuel dock and they said no alcohol. The place that replaced the flow meter unit knew it was and they fixed it.

I'm smoking diesel now. For the dinghy I replaced the fuel lines with the updated hose and carb kit. That Evenrude didn't mind the ethanol.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:56 PM   #34
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Can't you get ethanol free gas?

You can and while it's more expensive you get better mileage so the overall cost is a wash. But not that many places carry it. We're lucky in that there is a farm grange store near us that has non-ethanol gas. We now run our outboards, lawn mower, Honda generator (home), power washer, etc. on it.

Even with non-ethanol we still run all our gas engines (not the vehicles, obviously) out of gas when we're done using them. This makes a huge difference in how well they start again even after months of sitting unused. When we put the 17' Arima up for the winter i drain the carburetors, too, just to make sure.

Our new pickup can run on anything--- non-ethanol, E10, E15, even E85 although the manual has some specific procedures for using E85. I've never seen that around here anyway and wouldn't use it if it was.

All the gas station pumps here (except the non-ethanol pumps of course) have a big sticker that says "May contain up to 10% ethanol." Have not seen any E15 stickers yet.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:58 PM   #35
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You're lucky Marin.

Pure-gas.org shows the ethanol free gas for the US and I looked at CA. It's almost Oregon where they sell it and it's in 5 gal cans for 25.00. Not at a pump.

I'll have to stick with Chevron with Techron for my generator and Johnson.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:22 PM   #36
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We are fortunate here in the Puget Sound area. The three closest fuel docks to me all have non-ethanol gasoline at the fuel dock.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:27 PM   #37
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It's almost Oregon where they sell it and it's in 5 gal cans for 25.00. Not at a pump.

.
In addition to the grange stores which sell non-ethanol gas from a regular drive-up service station pump, I am starting to see some mainstream service stations advertising non-ethanol fuel. So far the ones I've noticed have been Union 76 (Philips 66) stations.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:35 PM   #38
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I'd say that all fuel docks in Florida carry ethanol free gas. It's usually Shell Valtech? 89 octane.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:42 PM   #39
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Next time I fuel up here I'll ask. As far as I know we don't have it here.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:45 PM   #40
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Uniflites are 25 cents on the dollar here. The blister problem coupled with our warmer water destroyed their value. I've seen them with blisters all the way up to the gunwales and in the yard they can get deep into the glass. The fix is very expensive and you'll never recoup the cost at your selling.

To the contrary, the boat in the slip next to me is a Uni and he has zero blisters and has owned it about 12 years now. I like the lines of that boat too.
Uniflite blister problem began and continued due to govt requirement for fire-proof additive into the FG resin when Uni won contract (away from Tollycraft - thank God!) to build many thousand Viet Nam War 31' delta patrol boats. Not realizing the huge oncoming problem (sometimes it took years for the blisters to show-up, and sometimes not that long a time) Uniflite changed all their build-out resin to same as used on Nam patrol boats. Up to and including 1973 Uni's were still built with their original resin mix. From early 1974 onward the new govt mandated resin mix began to be used. Due to some bulk supplies of the orig resin during 1974 some Uni's were OK and others got blisters from the new resin mix. By end of 74 all Uni were built with the new resin mix... that eventually blistered all Uniflite boats. It broke the company due to class action suit from U.S. pleasure boat owners.

Uniflite I owned was twin screw, fly bridge, sedan sportfisher 1973 31'... duplicate hull to the Nam boats. The newer model 32'ers were exact same hull (they measured 31' 8" loa) with altered interior and bridge. My 73 never had a blister. Uni in slip next to you is either pre 1974 or one of the ones that was lucky in 74 to be built while they were using up the orig resin supply. Also, sometime after Uniflite went broke (mid to latter 1980's??) I believe it was Pacemaker that purchased the company and continued still building some boat models with Uniflite name but different resin which cured the blister problem. Now, I may be incorrect, used to know from having a conversation with one of Uniflite’s founders... but I think Chris Craft was the last builder to use some of Uni's larger molds. I don't believe CC used the Uniflite name on boats they built, and there was no blister problem.
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