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Old 08-14-2017, 12:59 PM   #1
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Repowering - controls question

After 29 years of pushing my KK54 along its time to repower her before the Lehman implodes (the 225 is not nearly as reliable as the smaller versions, in fact I think all other K54s have already been repowered).

Im going with a JD 6068AFM85 and ZF CruiseCommand controls but started wondering whats better for a single engine trawler, having a single control lever that handles both throttle and shifting or a separate lever for each? Im assuming the single would be much easier when it comes to things like walking her sideways but I thought I would check before I pull the trigger. Currently my Shift and Throttle controls are separate.

Advice Appreciated.
Thanks
Arthur
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:39 PM   #2
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I like to set RPMs and just use shifter so single controls are out for me. People with single controls are often seen overpowering and blowing a good docking.

I have had both.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:48 PM   #3
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so then are you able to shift at higher RPMs? Say 900 versus 600 which is my idle (my current setup locks me out)
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:37 PM   #4
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There are good arguments for either type of controls. Personal preference.

If the ZF electronic controls that you are considering are the Microcomander brand, beware. There have been lots of problems with these. Kobelt makes a very solid alternative.

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Old 08-14-2017, 02:46 PM   #5
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I have a single lever dual control and I always ask myself how I could manage to have dual lever. 1 hand on the wheel and one hand to control, two levers would be to much to handle for me. But others may be of different opinion for sure.

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Old 08-14-2017, 03:46 PM   #6
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Have dual levers on my single engine charter boat and single lever on the single engine trawler. Both are cable driven. On the trawler (bigger boat), I usually don't need throttle for docking. Really like the single lever on the trawler. On the charter boat (smaller and planing hull), there's more throttle play in docking, pulses to move the stern over. Think I would be more concerned with accidentally pulling it out of gear with a single lever. Don't think I would change it to a single lever. Don't know if the above is helpful or not.

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Old 08-14-2017, 04:00 PM   #7
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I like separate levers for throttle and gear. Find single lever more likely to rev engine before clutch engages, causing a slam shift. Takes about the same time to move hand over to the other lever as it takes for a clutch to engage.

Other than that, just personal preference.
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:04 PM   #8
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Advise considering the Glendinning controls (great customer service and quality, US company) as well as the Kobelts. As for combo or separate, a matter of personal taste.
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:06 PM   #9
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Thanks everyone, I'll ask to look at quotes on other brands.
Still on the fence with respect to single or dual... ugg, wish I had more time with the old system before doing this but the transmission is almost done for so pushed up my engine swap time frame.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:40 PM   #10
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I was going to ask if you plan to replace the transmission too, and I guess the answer is yes.

The new engine will be electronically controlled, and pretty much all new gears are available with electric shift. If a zF gear, I'd go with the Mathers/ZF That's what I've got an no troubles so far. If Twindisc, I'd use their controls. And if you want an independent company, go Glendinning.

I personally prefer the single stick control. All the systems mentioned have throttle interlocks that will delay before allowing the revs to go up to ensure the gear has shifted. And it's all programmable.

On the ZF/Mathers, and probably the others too, there is a programmable fast idle. A long push of the take command button bumps the RPM from 650 to 800 on mine. I use it to get a little more hydraulic power when docking.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:57 PM   #11
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Yep ZF gear so will stick with thier controls
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:20 PM   #12
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I can raise the idle to 800 without fiddling with buttons. Just push the red knob a bit.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:36 AM   #13
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I prefer single lever , but what ever you chose use CABLES for the operation.

KISS always is first choice.
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:15 AM   #14
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If the new engine is electronic then no point in having cables. The cable would just go to an analog/electronic converter in the ER. So less points of failure to have electronic from the helm. I regret not doing it when re-powering, but I didn't appreciate the situation at the time.

To me a single lever would be preferable, but I survive with twin levers. Although I never change gear other than at idle. The PO would and frequently did change gear at higher rpm, and that's why my Twin Disc gears needed a rebuild at just 2000 hr. Way before they ought to have needed it.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:25 AM   #15
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Completely agree with your points on staying with whatever the natural communication is of your engine/transmission. Since all the stuff is electronic I'll go all electronic.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:05 AM   #16
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I was considering switching over to electronic controls from hydraulic, but the people I talked to said that there is a delay of up to two or three seconds before full engagement. If true, that would be a deal breaker. Any truth to this?
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:43 AM   #17
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first I have heard of this, it would be a deal breaker indeed although id be surprised if that was true... would love some feedback from members with electronic controls.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:56 PM   #18
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Wish I could justify electronic single lever controls. I sold and installed Mathers MicroComander (now ZF) for many years in Seattle. Never had an issue, and they have excellent local support.
The neutral delay is programmable.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:51 PM   #19
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Good to hear! Thanks Dave.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurc View Post
first I have heard of this, it would be a deal breaker indeed although id be surprised if that was true... would love some feedback from members with electronic controls.
I installed Kobelt single lever. Shift delay is completely programmable; I have mine set at 1.5 seconds. Kobelt has a very easy manual override system that as I recall, was one of the selling points for me. Shift override is just a button push when in neutral.
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