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Old 12-01-2015, 10:28 AM   #61
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If you do decide to get the Cummins, look up the "killer dowel pin". It's an easy fix before the install, but deadly to the engine if it goes wrong.
You'll probably want Tony Athens raw water pump uggrade too.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:43 AM   #62
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One other thing that may be of concern are the valve springs. Those that have been compressed for 25+ years may be weak.

No problem , diesel RPM is usually too low to bother.

After operation just take a look to see if any are broken.

Now if it was a 9500 RPM Ducati ............

I doubt if it has anything to do w rpm. The issue is thought of as constant pressure over long periods of time. But I even suspect that that may not be so either. It's probably an issue of just poor metal. Could be flex fatigue and that could be remotely related to rpm but valve lift and sitting compressed seems the accepted villein. But I don't think I heard that from engineers. Does this engine have one or two springs per valve?
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:59 AM   #63
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Bob

Are the engines located in a damp seaside setting with exhaust and manifold open or by the book stored in a warmer drier setting with innards sealed off and long term storage "lubricated?"

Your persistence is to be commended, see you up North and we can yack DeFevers. Is yours FRP or wood ?
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:31 PM   #64
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[QUOTE=If you do decide to get the Cummins, look up the "killer dowel pin".]

Thanks for the heads up on that one. I wasn't planning on pulling the front cover, but I am now. Definitely a worth while fix while it is in the shop.

BTW, I did buy the engine/trans.

Bob
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:50 PM   #65
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Now that the engine is yours, can you tell us a little bit about its history. I ask, because I recall reading years ago that Tony Athens, the boatdiesel Cummins guru said that no NA Cummins marine 6Bs were made.

Well, maybe not so. Or maybe someone bought an industrial 6B and added the Cummins marine parts. For example does yours have a water cooled exhaust manifold? It obviously was intended for marine use with a Velvet Drive transmission but was never installed?


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Old 12-01-2015, 04:49 PM   #66
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Are the engines located in a damp seaside setting with exhaust and manifold open or by the book stored in a warmer drier setting with innards sealed off and long term storage "lubricated?"
Sunchaser; The engine is in Minnesota, so warm-cold and always damp. The seller advertise it as being pickle sealed by a Cummins serviceman, what ever that means. Pictures show that the exhaust and fuel line are plastic plugged, but nothing covering the factory air cleaner. It doesn't appear to be rusty and the seller says it has been stored all these years in his heated/dehumidified garage. He said Cummins serviced and ran the engine a short time in 1997, then sealed it up. It come with a Cummins instrument panel that shows 3/10 of an hour on the Hobbs meter. So, it's still a crap shoot, but worth the risk.

It will probably be a couple of years before I do the Alaska trip and look forward to meeting members along the way. I also follow the DeFever Cruiser Forum and there are several members from that forum to check in on. Mine is a '79 Down East 40 DeFever that came out after Jensen Marine stopped making the 40' Passagemaker. Not much in the way of structural wood in this boat, mostly fiberglass.

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Old 12-01-2015, 05:16 PM   #67
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David; I'm not about to question Tony's knowledge on anything Cummins. The engine was on eBay. I think the link will still be up, but shows that is was sold.

1987 Cummins Marine Diesel Engine | eBay

I asked the seller to send me close-up photos of the engine and transmission ID/spec tags to make sure I wasn't buying something odd. The engine tag has all the right stuff on it that I was looking for, and it has a "Customer Special Order" number stamped on it. The Velvet Drive transmission tag has the Cummins "C" logo stamped on it, indicating to me that Cummins installed the transmission. So Cummins may not have mass marketed the 6B5.9M's in 1987, but it appears they put this one together.

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Old 12-01-2015, 05:24 PM   #68
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I have to say this is one of the happiest conclusions to a long and involved thread I have seen on this forum. I hope it runs well and serves you for a long time.


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Old 12-01-2015, 05:36 PM   #69
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David; I'm not about to question Tony's knowledge on anything Cummins. Bob
Cummins indeed made marine 5.9 NAs. Seen several dating back to the 90s. They were a favorite for standby fire water pumps too. Also boatdiesel's engine website shows the "old model" NA engine rated 115 HP at 2500 RPM.

But, I don't believe the 6B NAs are part of the reman program.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:13 PM   #70
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Cummins was pushing the 6bt onto the marine market a lot back then. The pair I have were installed sometime in the early to mid 90's. I wasn't involved with the boat then but I've heard the stories. Our boat was a type of test bed for Cummins engines, and were installed with direct Cummins support/supervision. Story goes the first set didn't work out right and were pulled out. Changes made and a second set installed. By the time I got involved they were up in the 9-10,000 hr range. At 14,000 now. Not bad for a truck engine, lol. They burn a little oil, they leak a little oil, but.....
1800 RPM = 60 MPH
14,000 hrs X 60 MPH = 840,000 miles (approx equiv)
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:59 PM   #71
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Okeydokey, the engine and trans should be here next week. Then I can hopefully sigh in relief. It will need a riser and possibly different engine mounts. I'll figure all that out after it gets here and I can start measuring it against the boat.

Thanks to all for the help and input. I know this will make for a happier boat and captain.

Bob
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:24 AM   #72
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Now that the engine is yours, can you tell us a little bit about its history. I ask, because I recall reading years ago that Tony Athens, the boatdiesel Cummins guru said that no NA Cummins marine 6Bs were made.
They were put is some of the last Willard 40s, I believe as a stock engine.

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Old 12-03-2015, 06:42 AM   #73
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Sounds like a good deal, but I would change the oil before operation , and again at 5-10 hours of operation.

After that , follow Da Book.
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:34 PM   #74
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The freight company requires all fluids be drained, so seller retained the oils and coolant to use in something else. The engine is being shipped later today.

I spoke to the original purchaser of the engine. He is an elderly man who had his grandson sell it for him on eBay. The old fella had a heavy equipment company outside of Minneapolis that also used barges. He said in 1987, he got talked into buying this new Cummins engine design with transmission to change out an old barge engine. This engine sat in their shop for many years and never installed. He said they were using all Cat engines, so the engine just sat there. In 1997, he took the engine to a Cummins shop where it was serviced, ran and sealed for long term storage. So it has been sitting in his home garage since.

I feel pretty comfortable with this deal. I have about 1/3 the cost of a Recon engine and new transmission into it at this point, so there is plenty of room for fixing issues and making it reliable.

FF: Sorry, what's a Da book? I am certain this engine will not come with an operator's manual, so I planned on picking up what I can from BoatDiesel and other sources.

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Old 12-04-2015, 02:20 PM   #75
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Da Book is the BIG maint and rebuild manual.

Usually $75 to $125 depending.

The Operators manual is like People Magazine , the real maint manual like the Economist for current events. .

Even if you cant turn a screwdriver the gent that comes to repair your baby will be delighted to see Da Book.

IF you are a DIY person Da Book will have all the hard to find stuff , how do you put the engine to storage for 6 months? as well as timing the injector system or replacing camshaft bearings..,

Think of it as the best motor insurance you can have.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:10 PM   #76
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FF; I ran searches several ways and didn't find the Da Book. If you can tell me the authors name, I will find it.

My brother was a diesel truck mechanic, mostly Cummins, but he passed away 20 years ago. I inherited his tools and diesel manuals, but no Cummins manuals. The shop he worked in must have had their own Cummins library.

Bob
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:23 PM   #77
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Bob ... a hint.

His initials are FF.

He means use the shop manual.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:18 AM   #78
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Got it. Duh
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Old 12-05-2015, 03:10 AM   #79
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For questions about Cummins motors, check out an app called "QuickServe Mobile". Input a Cummins serial number and see the build sheet and lots of info about the engine in question.
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Old 12-05-2015, 03:45 AM   #80
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Bob

As we follow your interesting journey a question that I probably missed -- is the engine set up for keel cooling and or dry stack or equipped for raw water cooling via an on engine heat exchanger and shower head?
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