Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-28-2017, 11:49 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
BrisHamish's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Beluga
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46eu 2006 hull#289
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 154
Report on Active Fin Stabilizers

You may recall late last year I decided to install a set of Naiad 252 fins with Datum controller on my GB46. I posted a thread about it, and some photos of the works being carried out, and there were some helpful suggestions from TF members which helped shape some of the install.

I have had them operating for a while now, and thought I would post an "independent as possible" review for those who are interested or even considering the same job.

First up, roll reduction. I bought a 1 litre bottle of water from the shop, tall and thin with a narrow base. With a small beam sea on Moreton Bay near Brisbane, the stabilizers off and steering from the flybridge, and the bottle placed on a flat surface near the wheel, the bottle would topple over almost as soon as you take your hand off it. Turn the stabilizers on, and the bottle never toppled, even during tight turns. An app on the Naiad guy's phone measured the roll at 6 degrees with stabilizers off, and about 1 degree with them on. The roll reduction has made the boat measurably more pleasant to travel on, and for some (false) reason it also makes me feel more confident while underway when the seas are up.

Speed. In calm conditions, with the stabilizers on or off, I reckon the boat is about three quarters of a knot slower. She used to do 15 Knots at 60% load on the engines, now in similar tide conditions she does 14+ at 60% load. But it is different when the seas are up - with the stabilizers on the boat travels faster than with them off plus the autopilot isn't constantly making course corrections (less frequent corrections, and when it does correct the amount of the correction is reduced). I am coming to the view that when the seas are up and the stabilizers are on, we are actually able to travel a bit faster than we used to be able to (as weird as that sounds).

Noise. Underway there is a slight sound in those cabins which sit above the actuators. Not enough to concern me. However when at rest in the quiet of the night, the stabilizers do make a bit of a racket as they flop around with the currents. I have asked Naiad to install a device on each actuator to hold the fins at centre when powered off, which they can easily do (had I known of this problem, I would have asked them to install these from the outset).

Ease of use. Very simple. The new Datum controller is pretty intuitive, and so far have just used it in the 'Adaptive' (ie automatic) setting.

Overall I am very pleased. The addition of stabilizers has made the boat much more 'approachable' and user friendly. I think it will make my annual Bluewater trips to the Whitsundays and to Sydney much more pleasant and less tiring.

And I cannot understand why, if a person is buying a new trawler and paying out a very substantial sum, they don't always agree to the comparatively small incremental cost of stabilizers and have them installed from the outset. Makes a huge difference!

H.
__________________
Advertisement

BrisHamish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:00 AM   #2
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,889
Thanks for the update Hamish. I'm surprised about the possible gain in speed in rough water, but when you think about the overall forces, it does make sense that the boat is more efficient when properly aligned in the water, and the AP has less error.

I'm certainly sold on any type of stabilizer system.

Do they provide any roll reduction at anchor with an unfriendly swell?
__________________

AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:05 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
BrisHamish's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Beluga
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46eu 2006 hull#289
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 154
The ones I have don't help at anchor. They are available, but they cost more and would have even more drag plus you have to run the genset all the time.

H.
BrisHamish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 02:00 AM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrisHamish View Post
Y
Noise. Underway there is a slight sound in those cabins which sit above the actuators. Not enough to concern me. However when at rest in the quiet of the night, the stabilizers do make a bit of a racket as they flop around with the currents. I have asked Naiad to install a device on each actuator to hold the fins at centre when powered off, which they can easily do (had I known of this problem, I would have asked them to install these from the outset).

.....

And I cannot understand why, if a person is buying a new trawler and paying out a very substantial sum, they don't always agree to the comparatively small incremental cost of stabilizers and have them installed from the outset. Makes a huge difference!

H.
Glad you are really happy with them - not that there was ever going to be any doubt. Now I've had them I would only buy a boat with them or have them fitted immediately after purchase.

But I would also look closely at Seakeeper as an alternative. Probably not as good for roll reduction under way, but at anchor it would be great. Frankly, I think the Naiad's reduce the roll a lot more than is needed for comfort, so the gyro might be fine.

Mind you, the Naiad's could not really cope for me one day last year in Hervey Bay. Shallow water, 25kn of wind against an outgoing tide. I got a bit beat up....

My Multisea II controller has a 'centre' button that you can use at any time. When off, they are centred and held in place (hydraulic lock). I thought that was standard? You would have the manual locking pins, but it would be quite inconvenient to use them every time you anchor up.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 02:41 AM   #5
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,431
On larger boats now, it's becoming quite popular to have both Naiad and Seakeeper.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:29 PM   #6
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,937
To me one big advantage to the ABT stabilizers are their automatic locking pins. They are spring loaded, and release when you shut down the hydraulics, locking the fins in their center position. They can also be locked from the control panel, and lock as a safety measure any time you are reversing.

And they have stabilization at rest, so work in rolly anchorages.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:40 PM   #7
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
On larger boats now, it's becoming quite popular to have both Naiad and Seakeeper.
Interesting. I have not heard that.

Since NAIADs have at anchor stabilization as an option, what's the rational?

Redundancy?

The Seakeepers are quieter at anchor?
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 02:09 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Sea Q's Avatar


 
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Q
Vessel Model: Westport Mc Queen
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 178
When we first bought a boat with stabilizers we couldn't believe how much stuff was NOT bolted down of the ship .
The ride was fantastic try a simple test in calm weather a turn at 30 degrees with them on and then a turn off you will notice what an improvement they make .
Our naiads auto self center below a set speed and also can be centered by user. Good when your coming into dock

Surf the trough
Waves on your side 45 deg were you speed up to increase the performance of the fins and you ride the trough between waves crests

Good to get the old blood a flowing
You will be happy with the upgrade
Sea Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 02:39 PM   #9
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Interesting. I have not heard that.

Since NAIADs have at anchor stabilization as an option, what's the rational?

Redundancy?

The Seakeepers are quieter at anchor?
Redundancy and options. Even using both under some conditions. I think in calm seas they may not use the Seakeepers but then turn them on for worse conditions.

I know Westport delivered one or more boats that way and Heesen has. A couple of others I can't remembeer. Now, I think it might also be because Naiad was standard and they decided to add the Seakeepers. Wanted to let the Seakeepers prove themselves before eliminating the Naiads, perhaps too.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 04:57 PM   #10
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
On larger boats now, it's becoming quite popular to have both Naiad and Seakeeper.
Seems to me a decent catamaran would solve those issues :-)

We don't have either and after near a year cruising around the bay in mostly ideal conditions (as we have no time constraints) haven't considered them.

For those that have them, would you need them if time wasn't an issue and you could pick your weather?
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 05:15 PM   #11
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Seems to me a decent catamaran would solve those issues :-)

We don't have either and after near a year cruising around the bay in mostly ideal conditions (as we have no time constraints) haven't considered them.

For those that have them, would you need them if time wasn't an issue and you could pick your weather?
We don't want to cruise only in ideal weather. One, that leads to not seeing as much as we desire. Second, we enjoy some variety in conditions. We don't want to cruise when it's dangerous or horribly uncomfortable, but otherwise we do.

To us, time is an issue in that you only have so much in your life and more places you want to see than you ever can. We don't want to just cruise around the bay. Nothing wrong with doing that but "we have places to go, things to see." In your search for ideal conditions, we'd never cruise the Caribbean. We'd have far fewer trips to the Bahamas.

I realize we're not the norm here, but I'd feel a great restriction following the perfect conditions philosophy.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 05:16 PM   #12
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Seems to me a decent catamaran would solve those issues :-)
What is your definition of a decent catamaran? Give me an example of one that currently is built.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 05:53 PM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post

For those that have them, would you need them if time wasn't an issue and you could pick your weather?
Yes, we had Wesmar stabilizers installed after we retired. We still pick our weather windows, but the difference for us is that at 1.6 meters on the beam the trip is very smooth, 2 meters OK. Without stabilizers 2 meters is painful.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 06:41 PM   #14
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
What is your definition of a decent catamaran? Give me an example of one that currently is built.
As a start

Custom Aluminium Catamaran: Power Boats | Boats Online for Sale | Aluminium | Western Australia (WA) - Qld | Boats Online

Or

Wave Piercing Catamaran 22.5m For Sale | Ensign Ship Brokers
or
1995 Awesome Boats - New Zealand Custom Power Catamaran MY Power Boat
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 06:46 PM   #15
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
What is your definition of a decent catamaran? Give me an example of one that currently is built.
To me the Horizon PC60 is at least half-decent! Although I have not been aboard one let alone cruised on one. If like sailing cats they might corkscrew a bit, and yes stuff would need to be bolted down vs a stabilised mono.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 06:51 PM   #16
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
. We don't want to just cruise around the bay. Nothing wrong with doing that but "we have places to go, things to see."
Same here and we are only cruising the bay in ours until we have ironed the bugs out and sorted the house, car, etc out.

I have done extensive miles, even ocean crossings on unstabilized boats where I would never consider having them.
Of course we had to wait for a weather window to open and go, but if living aboard full time with no time constraints surely its simply a matter of enjoying one idealic anchorage a bit longer before moving on to the next.
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 12:06 PM   #17
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Seems to me a decent catamaran would solve those issues :-)

We don't have either and after near a year cruising around the bay in mostly ideal conditions (as we have no time constraints) haven't considered them.

For those that have them, would you need them if time wasn't an issue and you could pick your weather?
You mean in a perfect world?

Obviously not.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 12:22 PM   #18
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
You mean in a perfect world?

Obviously not.
Wouldn't need them on a pond either.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 07:38 PM   #19
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
You mean in a perfect world?

Obviously not.
If your definition of a perfect world is one where you have no time constraints so can wait for the right weather window before moving to the next ideallic anchorage then I guess we live in a perfect world.

We have enough supplies and food gathering abilities on board to wait out several weeks of bad weather if needs be.
No rush. No deadlines. No where of importance to be.
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 09:39 PM   #20
Guru
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Same here and we are only cruising the bay in ours until we have ironed the bugs out and sorted the house, car, etc out.

I have done extensive miles, even ocean crossings on unstabilized boats where I would never consider having them.
Of course we had to wait for a weather window to open and go, but if living aboard full time with no time constraints surely its simply a matter of enjoying one idealic anchorage a bit longer before moving on to the next.
Why would you never consider having stabilizers on an ocean crossing?
__________________

Woodland Hills is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×