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Old 05-08-2015, 07:05 AM   #21
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"I would think that if Volvo decided to go to the expense of replacing the engine that they were 99% sure that is what needs to be done"

Perhaps because a series of engines have the same issues worldwide?

Internal engine parts are computer selected , could be this engine was "close" to tolerances , and just needs more time to settle in?
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Old 05-08-2015, 08:12 AM   #22
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Just wondering - Are the two engine serial numbers sequential?
I'd feel better about the second engine if they weren't.
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:02 AM   #23
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How do you run the boat? Planed out or trawler speed? If you run trawler speed, the rings may have never had a chance to seat in.
She was a stock boat which had 30 hours on her when we took possession. When we can we cruise around 2800 / WOT is around 3500.

Good point about them "knowing something", but I've not heard of any similar cases with D4's, my Volvo mechanic hasn't either. He did have a case that fixed itself at 300 hours. Boatdiesel.com hasn't shown anything either.

I've asked for more testing and 50 more running hours before we proceed with the long block replacement.
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Old 05-09-2015, 10:53 PM   #24
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Just wondering - Are the two engine serial numbers sequential?
I'd feel better about the second engine if they weren't.
Good question. Yes they are in sequence, and the starboard engines does burn some too, just not as much. Assuming my estimate of 24 oz. from min to max is right, that engine burned about 7-9 oz. in last 15 hours, 65 gallons.

Not thrilled about that either. Another reason I want to see after another 50 hours.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:29 AM   #25
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24 oz between the lines seems low. Most of the diesels in that horse power rang I'm familiar with hover around a gallon between the lines. I'm not at all familiar with Volvo's... just saying.

A long block for sure is an expensive part, but probably not as expensive as the labor and restoration to your boat. You'd think the labor costs to do two long blocks in that situation would be not that much more than one. If the other unit is showing the same issue, I'd be pushing for both long blocks. Like others have said, if Volvo is willing to replace, they must be suspecting a ring issue.

I guess Volvo's checked compression? A scored piston bore would be easier to diagnose vs a defective oil control ring. One would think a score in the bore would show up on the oil sample. If I'm not mistaken, the lowest ring on the piston is for oil control, and the ones above that are compression.

For sure enough hours to seat the rings, but you never know. I would try more attempts to seat the rings with a mechanic you trust to do some hard running.

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Old 05-10-2015, 07:57 AM   #26
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This may seem simplistic, but;
Are you absolutely sure the dipstick(s) are calibrated correctly. It is rare that the factory markings on the dipstick are correct as the engine mfg has no idea at what angle the engine will sit in a boat. The only way to know is to drain all the oil, then fill with the exact quantity called for in the engine's manual. Then insert the dipstick and be sure the full mark is accurate. Most dipsticks that at are calibrated properly will have new full marks scratched on them that differ from the factory original.

Since your engines are sequentially numbered, and you are getting different oil use, I suspect the dipsticks could be off. The engines might simply be burning off excess oil which is reflected as a low oil reading on the dipsticks. I would sure have this checked out before pulling your boat apart.

Good luck, Howard
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Old 05-10-2015, 08:25 AM   #27
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This may seem simplistic, but;
Are you absolutely sure the dipstick(s) are calibrated correctly. It is rare that the factory markings on the dipstick are correct as the engine mfg has no idea at what angle the engine will sit in a boat. The only way to know is to drain all the oil, then fill with the exact quantity called for in the engine's manual. Then insert the dipstick and be sure the full mark is accurate. Most dipsticks that at are calibrated properly will have new full marks scratched on them that differ from the factory original.

Since your engines are sequentially numbered, and you are getting different oil use, I suspect the dipsticks could be off. The engines might simply be burning off excess oil which is reflected as a low oil reading on the dipsticks. I would sure have this checked out before pulling your boat apart.

Good luck, Howard
Howard, No, they haven't been calibrated. This has been a suspicion of mine since day one.

I'm Going to have them do this, take another oil sample, and run a compression test.
Other suggestions?

I look at the block replacement as major surgery, which I'll do after I'm sure that it is absolutely necessary.

All you have been really helpful.
Thank you.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason View Post
This may seem simplistic, but;
Are you absolutely sure the dipstick(s) are calibrated correctly. It is rare that the factory markings on the dipstick are correct as the engine mfg has no idea at what angle the engine will sit in a boat. The only way to know is to drain all the oil, then fill with the exact quantity called for in the engine's manual. Then insert the dipstick and be sure the full mark is accurate. Most dipsticks that at are calibrated properly will have new full marks scratched on them that differ from the factory original.

Since your engines are sequentially numbered, and you are getting different oil use, I suspect the dipsticks could be off. The engines might simply be burning off excess oil which is reflected as a low oil reading on the dipsticks. I would sure have this checked out before pulling your boat apart.

Good luck, Howard

Heed Howard's advice. Also, try running with the oil level at the bottom of "OK" or at the add line for awhile. Doing this, assess oil consumption.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:42 AM   #29
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I think that my plan would be to take her out get warmed up and then go to full throttle for a 6 or 8 hour run. Secondly I would stop adding oil. Check it for sure and see where it is but leave it and see if it settles at some point. Just because it has a full mark does not always mean that is where it likes to run. I would not worry much about the oil being below the add mark as long as I was checking it regularly. If the oil level stabilizes at some point then I would mark my dipstick.
If it keeps going down and gets down well below add then I think you have a problem.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:43 AM   #30
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Wouldn't Volvo go through all these checks of actual oil level vs dispstick, calibration, etc.? They stand to gain the most if this is a simple problem. I would expect then to eliminate every possible cause before agreeing to a short block replacement.
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:21 PM   #31
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is there any oil slick in the exhaust system?
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:42 PM   #32
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I understand about the engines finding their "happy level" and have given them a chance to do so, but when the level drops off the dipsticks I feel the need to add oil, right? I'm really looking forward to the service that ascertains exactly WHAT the dipsticks are showing.

Totally agree that Volvo seems to want to clear their desks of this case before fully checking things out. Remember, they have sent their authorized mechanic to the boat only once on this issue! Due dilligence is needed and that's what I seeking.

No oil slick or smoke, ever, that I have seen. Our white transom stays bright white.
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:16 PM   #33
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since Volvo are willing to replace the engine it is possible they know something we don't. Other engines may have problems they are not revealing. I would be reluctant to drag out the process in case they change their mind.
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Old 05-11-2015, 06:49 AM   #34
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I would be reluctant to drag out the process in case they change their mind.

And if the engines were in series , I would ask Volvo why not replace them BOTH?
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:11 PM   #35
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Just SWITCH Dipsticks to see if there is a Difference on What they read with opposite motors....just to eliminate the Dip stick being different for each motor.
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:35 AM   #36
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"We had a late model Audi with very low miles and the gasoline engine was burning a quart every 2000-3000 miles of synthetic oil. It was under warranty. The dealer did a oil consumption check and admitted it was burning oil but Audi said it wasn't using enough oil to replace/repair the engine under the warranty."

Had the same issue. I pursued an Audi spec for oil consumption through several levels of escalation at Audi. Audi will only say "it's not exceeding expected oil consumption". Probably would take a lawsuit to get them to disclose a spec based on my experience. It seems absurd that any automaker, let alone a German one, wouldn't have such a spec.

Having had this experience with Audi, the response you've received from Volvo sounds pretty reasonable.
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:43 AM   #37
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If you stop adding oil, and go for a long run,and the engine goes "bang!" do you think Volvo will be as accommodating as now? Yes, I know, they already say it needs a new block, but think about it, things could get messy.
The disappearing oil is a mystery, noting your careful observations, but it has to be going somewhere, and there is plenty of it to go there. Apparently Volvo are not taking you into their confidence, they should disclose the issue requiring engine replacement and resolve your entirely reasonable curiosity.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:34 PM   #38
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I checked, the dipsticks are identical so switching them to the other engine wouldn't tell me anything.

It DOES worry me that the engine serial numbers are consecutive.

Volvo is working with me by giving me and their service rep time for due diligence before major surgery.

As stated on this forum what I REALLY need, at least, is to get the oil completely drained then precisely read the dipsticks once the specified amount is added. This is the only way to calibrate the sticks that I know of.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll keep you advised.
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:09 AM   #39
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This is the only way to calibrate the sticks that I know of.

Yes but the angle of tilt of the engine might pay an important role.

Larger engines can be checked after warmup at idle.

Maybe Volvo had a oil check procedure for this engine while operating?
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:07 AM   #40
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surely volvo would have checked all these obvious things. I suspect they have had similar problems before and know what's wrong just don't want to admit it in todays very public world.


Remember the soft French block issue with Cats long ago?


IMO you are lucky that Volvo is standing up and they are responsible for putting the boat back together properly I would not stand in their way.
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