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Old 06-01-2016, 06:39 PM   #21
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All,

Thanks for the article submitted by David. Now I understand some of the questions. I dont think I have a ccv system but will double check tomorrow. I would have thought that the surveyor would have recognized this fact, but who knows.


The oil is at the full Mark. I have associated turbo leakage with speed, but perhaps it is better associated with boat angle.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:47 PM   #22
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picture of turbo snot

Here is an earlier picture after a couple days of running to include some above 2000 rpm
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:58 PM   #23
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And Gordon, don't forget your surveyor told you to replace the turbos. For reasons that as of yet are not quantified. Bound to be some odd speculation.

But you are right to raise the question. Now ask the Cummins crowd at boatdiesel.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:46 PM   #24
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That looks like an oil leak not a rebuild. It's also pretty black, do you have records of when it was changed last? I'm with the others in this, oil overfilled or wrong grade. I would change the oil (BOTH turbos so unlikely to fail at the same time) and clean up the mess and look for a bad oil line connection or some other issue that will let the oil out. Smoke would tell the tail but you have none so I'd guess an oil leak. Rebuild last resort.

Difficult to see on my phone but it doesn't look neglected...

Congratulations on the new boat.
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:16 PM   #25
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I guess the pix is sideways if so it sure looks like a leak at that oval fitting the hose attaches to
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
No salt water ingestion. The only issue is oil leaking showing up on turbo housing. Engines are 330 hp cummins 6BTA5.9s.,. Mofel year 2003.

We just purchased, last year, a Nordic Tug 2002 with the Cummins 330hp and have experienced oil leaking out of the air cleaner after running the engine at 2400 rpm for a few hours. What we were told by others is that NOTHING is wrong with the engine. With the slight angle that the engine sits you need to run your oil level on the low side. Last oil change we put in 3.5 gallons instead of the 3.8. The oil level is barely at the low mark and so far no more oil out of the air cleaner.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:39 PM   #27
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Wipe up the spittle from the turbos. Done.

The air scroll with snap ring does not form a perfect seal. Very common to have spittle in that area.
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:03 AM   #28
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In other words, OIL is CHEAP, forgetaboutit.
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:30 AM   #29
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While this is about your turbos, you mentioned that the exhaust risers are being rebuilt, probably replaced. I have Cummins 6bt engines and have replaced 20 year old risers. I have noted poorly designed risers on a number of Cummins, not likely Cummins doing but builder, seen quite a few OAs with this. In these installs, the raw water input into the riser is on the engine side of the riser and it should be on the exhaust side. Tony's site, Seaboard Marine, has a good article and pictures that show the problem (Designing a Marine Exhaust System - Seaboard Marine . My point is to make sure your new risers are properly designed or you will get salt water into the turbos and likely the engine.
http://www.sbmar.com/wp-content/uplo...tem_17_300.jpg
The jpg file shows the result.
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:50 AM   #30
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Bnoft,

Exactly how mine were built. I am having deangelos marine exhaust, in ft. Lauderdale, rebuild mine with the water inject on the muffler side instead of turbo side. Mine had not started to leak, but do not want to worry about when they will start. I am having them built with 316 stainless.

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Old 06-02-2016, 06:50 AM   #31
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When I say rebuild, i mean i am getting new ones built.
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:04 AM   #32
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Most times where the water enters the exhaust riser is NOT where its squirted into the exhaust stream.

Internal passages allow the water to cool the riser before discharge.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:30 AM   #33
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Gordon, it sounds like you are way ahead of us, just post some pictures when you are done (just for me, actually!).

I have a 6CTA but dry stacked but I am very interested in your work.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:17 PM   #34
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Downside?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Gordon:


You restated your problem, ok, so now listen to my restatement of diagnosis you need to make to find the cause:


As Ski noted earlier, most boat systems direct crankcase blowby back to the air intake. Usually it is not very oily, but three things can make it oily: bad rings, an overfilled crankcase and an AirSep system.


You can easily check for bad rings by putting your hand in front of the blowby tube while there is some load on the engine. You will feel heavy exhaust pulses. Or remove the filler cap and feel for pulses.


An overfilled crankcase can let the crankshaft whip the oil up and out the blowby vent. This is probably the most likely cause. Lower the oil level by a quart and see what happens.


Finally an AirSep system can overpressure the crankcase and force oil out with the blowby and then into the intake. They work fine on DD 2 strokes but especially on the Cummins B, they do not. That is why Seaboard Marine (Tony Athens' company) developed their Envirovent system for the Cummins B and C.


AirSeps were factory installed on some Bs and yours may have them. Read the following. It is detailed and tedious but it describes exactly what may be happening to your engines: EnviroVent CCV Kit 4BT & 6BT Series - Seaboard Marine


Check for these three problems before rebuilding your turbos. I'll bet it is one of them.


David
David,

I have relooked my engine and do not have a CCV system installed. At best, I think the only way for oil to get into the turbo, other than through the oil supply line.

So lets tackle this issue from another angle: if I were to just continue using the turbos, what would happen during failure, other than needing to shut the engine down. On big trucks, a turbo failure can result in down stream damage to the charged air cooler (something analogous to an after cooler on boats).

If I just let it ride so to speak, what is the potential downside, other than having to limp back into port?

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Old 06-02-2016, 03:07 PM   #35
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Gordon:


You may not have a CCV system installed, but you do have a crankcase vent which goes somewhere. If it just dumps into the engine room, then any entrained oil mist will be sucked up into the intake. Even more directly if the blowby vent hose terminates at the air inlet like my Yanmar 6LY.


So, you have eliminated one of my proposed causes- a malfunctioning AirSep. So how about eliminating the other two rather than continuing to focus on the oil supply to the turbo bearings. If a turbo seal is bad, I don't see how it is going to get oil on the air filter as you described, except maybe at shutdown and it will only be on the bottom.


So, check for excessive blowby from wherever the crankcase is vented and lower the oil level and see if your problem goes away.


I am no expert on turbo failures, but if it is a lubrication related failure, the bearings will get loose and the turbo blades will start to rub on the housing and the turbo will stop turning. I think that you will get plenty of warning due to not being able to hit the rated rpms of the e


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Old 06-02-2016, 03:14 PM   #36
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David,

I don't know if what you wrote was a typo, but I am not getting oil on the air filter, but inside and particularly the housing in front of the intake fan. And naturally, any oil accumulated there would drain to the bottom of the housing.

I will drain a quart of oil from both engines, wipe turbos clean and see what happens. I have seen blowby in the engine room only upon startup, but not after the engines have run for a couple of minutes. I am probably out to lunch, but I don't see how that much oil could accumulate from blowby going into the engine spaces.

I will continue checking and reduce oil.

Thanks
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:24 PM   #37
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Gordon:


From your first post " I do have Some oil in the air cleaner."


Also, if you are seeing blowby on startup, that is a problem. Even if it is a fraction after it warms up which I doubt, it won't take much to show up in the air cleaner or the intake turbine. Every bit of that blowby either settles out in the engine compartment or gets sucked up by the engine.


Please check blowby first, before doing anything else. And if it is noticeable, install Seaboard Marine's Envirovent system. The entrained oil will be coalesced and contained in a "puke bottle" and not sucked up into your intake.


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Old 06-03-2016, 03:37 PM   #38
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"The entrained oil will be coalesced and contained in a "puke bottle" and not sucked up into your intake."

Why would one care?

Oil all around the ER is a big mess , but a tablespoon in the intake?

Oil burns , all gone!
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:59 PM   #39
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I have no oil all around engine room so am at a loss to explain.
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Gordon:

I am no expert on turbo failures, but if it is a lubrication related failure, the bearings will get loose and the turbo blades will start to rub on the housing and the turbo will stop turning. I think that you will get plenty of warning due to not being able to hit the rated rpms of the e
David
I'm no expert either, but I did have a turbo on my Dodge/Cummins pickup "fail" from the bearing wearing out and the impeller blades hitting the housing. No way this would have stopped the turbocharger from spinning. It simply ground off the impeller blades and sucked the metal dust into the engine. That did not hurt anything as far as I could tell.
I found the problem because one day after shut down I could hear the blades hitting as the turbo spooled to a stop.
But underway I did not experience any power drop nor could I hear any noise.

In Gordon's case I would simply put a piece of oil diaper to catch the drool and cruise on.
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