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Old 03-11-2014, 08:08 AM   #1
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Replace Engine for Sundowner Tug

I have a 1983 Sundowner Tug (30') with a pathfinder diesel 85hp engine. I would like to replace it with a 4-cylinder Yanmar 110hp engine.

Has anyone replaced their engine in a Sundowner and if so, any suggestions.
Thanks.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:23 AM   #2
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Hi there, and welcome aboard

The previous owner of our 30' Sundowner Tug, Badger, put in a 100hp Yanmar 4JH2-UTE. It was mounted pretty tight against the forward bulkhead, making the addition of engine driven add-ons (serpentine pulleys or a second alternator, etc) problematic, so I'd advize leaving some wiggle room forward (keeping the boats centre of balance in mind) in case you might want to do that. Also, a bigger engine means less room altogether.

Our most fuel efficient cruising speed is pretty low in rpm...about 2600, or just past where the turbo kicks in. I'm no deisel mechanic (bottom end of the learning curve on that one!) so don't know the long term effects of running the engine that way, but so far it purrs right along as happy as can be. In our first year (about 9 months of boating) we averaged 1.5 gallons per hour.

If I was to repower, I'd consider going back to a smaller engine. While there might be times when all that extra brute power might be handy, dragging the extra weight and burning the extra fuel all the time doesn't seem worth it...then again...I haven't been in a situation where that extra power saved the day either, in which case it would have been worth it after all!

Keep dropping in here...there's lots of good information from others waaaaay more experienced than I, and don't forget to try the advanced search function.

Murray
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:45 AM   #3
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I think I would opt for the 75 hp Yanmar. It should have plenty of power for a 30' and the lack of an aftercooler is a plus.

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Old 03-11-2014, 11:18 AM   #4
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The base JH engine (55hp) should do fine unless you want more speed. That engine has a great reputation. My fovorite engine is Isuzu and they have a comparable 54hp engine for probably considerably less money. Yanmars are a fairly loud direct injected engine. The upside of that is no glow plugs are needed. I do like my Mitsubishi w pre-combustion chambers and glow plugs.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:41 AM   #5
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I think I would opt for the 75 hp Yanmar. It should have plenty of power for a 30' and the lack of an aftercooler is a plus.

David
for engine

Also remember there is a new gear reducer and old prop and drive line (the fore and aft Murray was alluding to) that enters into switch out. This may be a good time to consider a fuel tank replacement if having the engine out gives you access you otherwise may not have.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:13 PM   #6
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Second David on avoiding an engine with sea water aftercooler. And get a hydraulic reduction gear. Some Yanmars come with mechanical gears (not sure on the 4JH). Those mech gears are obnoxious.

And while the JH is direct injected, noise is tolerable. A bit easier on fuel too. I like the sound of a DI engine better, even if there is a bit more of it!!
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:45 PM   #7
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It will fit. the boat next to me is a Sundowner 30 he replaced a VW diesel with a Yanmar JH. It is pretty tight.

SD
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #8
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I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

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Old 03-11-2014, 02:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar. betamarine - Engine View
Yep! I noticed that with our wing engine, it's WAY louder then the main and twice the RPM, also runs very rough.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:28 PM   #10
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I've done some looking in the 50 hp range and Beta and We$terbeke would be near the top of my list.
Check out this site:
Repowering Tortuga - Choosing a new Engine
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:22 PM   #11
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Question,
Why do you want to replace it?
Is it simply to repower because the current engine is giving trouble or you are having trouble obtaining repair parts?
OR
Do you want more speed?
It makes a difference.
Hull speed, so called, is about 6-6.5 knots and your current HP is plenty for that.
If you want to get up to about 8 knots you will be pushing the hull without getting on plane and the hp requirements and fuel will jump a lot.

These boats will plane with enough power but to get it will likely crowd the engine compartment big time.
With 85 hp I'm guessing you have a 4 cyl. Lehman or Perkins.
Be very carefull with measurments. That eng. compartment is tight and you could create a problem if the engine contemplated is much larger than what you have now.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:46 PM   #12
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I have a Kubota Beta in my Sundowner. It replaced a Pathfinder.
I'm very pleased.
PM me if you want more info or pictures.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:04 PM   #13
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I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar
Excellent advice!

Its amazing how many people will tout a 1800 RPM generator over a 3600 RPM engine, then turn right around and recommend a high RPM unit as the main engine.

I would recommend a engine that developes the HP needed for hull speed operation at a RPM rating that is lower. Actually the lower the better (within reason) with the only real issue being size constraints.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:03 PM   #14
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A couple of years ago I looked at various re-powering options and decided the best option at that time was the John Deere 4045D. It developed the full rated HP at 2600 RPM and could matched up with NMEA 2000 gauges giving more options at the helm and for monitoring.

Tom
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

betamarine - Engine View
Yanmar has been gradually reducing the rated RPM of the JH Series engines. My 4JH3E (2001) is rated at 3,800 RPM and can sound pretty busy at the recommended 85% power - 2,900 RPM.

The latest 4JH5E (N/A Common Rail) engines are rated at 3,000 RPM and the 4JH4-TE (Turbo DI) at 3,200 RPM. At around 2,500 RPM or less they might be more reasonable shipmates. They are also available with either Kanzaki or ZF hydraulic transmissions which are smooth and quiet. They do remain somewhat pricy though.

Good luck in your search.

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:49 AM   #16
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Why the need for more horsepower? I'm not aware your boat is suitable for planing speeds. Seems like wasted effort and expense to overpower that boat. Perhaps you have the wrong boat.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:54 AM   #17
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A couple of years ago I looked at various re-powering options and decided the best option at that time was the John Deere 4045D. It developed the full rated HP at 2600 RPM and could matched up with NMEA 2000 gauges giving more options at the helm and for monitoring.

Tom
My 2010 JD 4045D is only rated for a maximum 2400 RPM to produce its maximum 80 horsepower. It's happiest at 1800 RPM. (Low RPM engines are gooood.)
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:51 AM   #18
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In our first year (about 9 months of boating) we averaged 1.5 gallons per hour.

This would AT BEST be perhaps 30HP.

I would look for an engine with NO turbo of about 50 HP.

If the tranny is in good shape you might be able to machine an adapter to continue its use.

If you need to purchase a tranny go 2 sizes larger if you buy a Hirth .

The old Perkins 4-107 or similar would seem ideal , as they dont mind low power operation , lorry engine.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

betamarine - Engine View
Like Tad Robert said, I fully agree. The Beta 75 HP. 3.3 litre, I like to add: Paired with at Deep red.ratio i.e. 3:1, from a PRM. hydraulic or a ZF gear, will give a efficient push for the Sundowner 30 TUG.-and low noise, comfortable running, at pleasant 1800/1900 rpm.
_ do not only look at HP.but more for a real TORQ, to swing a big propeller.
Trawler/Tugs want/need that kind of propulsion...!

The US.Beta people (by Stanley), gives good proffesional help.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:25 AM   #20
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We're all talking about how much power WE"D put in the Sundowner Tug (ST). And the OP has'nt said anything about how fadt he wants to go. Just that he's thinking about 110hp.

The ST leans on the planing side of SD so he could easily use 110hp or even more. And he will eventually sell the boat. Buyers will expect a reasonable amount of power. Reasonable being what THEY THE BUYER think is reasonable or proper. That's why manufacturers over power SD and even FD boats. I voted for 55hp. Exactly half of what the OP said he was thinking about. One would need to run the ST at 10 knots to use the 110hp engine w/o underloading it. The ST is the wrong boat to power as a FD boat but if the owner wants ... But he will/likely may suffer when he sells it.

So on second thought he should probably go w 100hp or so and chose an engine least likely to suffer from underloading depending on what he thinks about underloading.

But if he wants to limit his speed to FD he should get a FD boat like Mark has already said.

So I think we need to hear from the owner. He has not posted a second post. Find out what he knows about hulls and speed. And the underloading question. And if he cares.

Anode,
How do you usually run your boat? And w how much power?
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