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Old 10-19-2018, 11:03 AM   #1
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Removing transmission

Well, as some of you might remember, the dipstick fell into my transmission and retrieving it was not a success. I am not ready to remove the transmission to resolve this issue. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

(Engine FL 120; tranny Paragon)
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:16 AM   #2
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Ease depends on access.

Basic steps:

Disconnect prop shaft and slide back at least a few inches.

If rear mounts are on tranny, set up hoist to lift rear of engine.

Unbolt mounts while hoist takes the load (est 700-1000lb).

Disconnect hoses and hardware in the way.

Remove bolts holding trans plate to flywheel housing.

Wiggle tranny off, sometimes takes persuasion. Needs to slide back a few inches for input shaft to clear drive plate.

Reverse to install. Check drive plate condition carefully, it is a wear item and easy to replace at this point.

When done, check and adjust engine to prop shaft alignment.

These are the very basic steps, each install is different.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:29 PM   #3
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Good luck to you! Every time I try a biggie like this, something goes wrong.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:20 PM   #4
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If I had to face a project like this, I’d most likely hire a pro. I could do it, but it would probably cost me more and for sure I’d screw something up in the process. Then getting a pro to correct my mistake would cost even more.
Best of luck either way.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:31 PM   #5
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No don't be afraid, it ain't that difficult. Just be slow and methodical but do be aware that there's usually a bolt on the underside of the gearbox, some people have been known to overlook it and try and chisel the gearbox apart ( I've fixed 3 where a butcher made a mess).
I would highly recommend fitting a new 'heavy duty' clutch plate, be sure to check its a heavy duty model, don't get fobbed off with old stock, while you have easy access.
You will benefit in the long run.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:41 PM   #6
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Taking the tranny off isnt much more difficult thsn replacing a starter motor....a few more bolts to undo, a couple hoses instead of cables and undoing the shift cable....

The hardest part is figuring out how to hoist, jack or lift it out.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:58 PM   #7
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I don’t know what the sump is like on that transmission, it might be possible to leave it where it’s at and get a new dipstick.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:31 PM   #8
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Pros, I don't think so

So Far I have tried several so called "pros" in my area. I haven't found any that know any more than I do . And I don't know all that much, but they charge a whole lot more than I do.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:44 PM   #9
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I have done some sneaky things with a small cylindrical magnet ziptied to an aluminum welding rod. Very bendable, can sneak into tricky places. Can bend rod as needed.

Assuming the stick is steel, check the remnant.

You can offer a tech $100 to try, and $500 if he gets it. A little incentive works wonders. Just make sure you keep the remnant with you privately so you can match it up should he find it. Keeps them honest!!
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:02 PM   #10
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If you are bouncing through the chop, and dip stick falls against a gear, the gear will start chewing it away creating small metal particles. Small metal particles may either be caught by internal magnet or be circulated into bearings, ruining the bearings.

In other words, the dip stick has to come out. Pay me now or pay me later.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:47 PM   #11
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Buy a WiFi endoscope ($36 Amazon) Drain the transmission. If your lucky you can find the dipstick. Use the hook or magnet to retrieve. Worth a try.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:46 PM   #12
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Thanks for the advice. I am not afraid to tackle new projects and this doesn't seem to be over complicated. I just need to know what I need to know beforehand. I was at the boat last weekend and started working on it. So far I disconnected the shaft and pulled it back a few inches. The bolts came loose easily so that was good. I then checked to see if all the bolts holding the transmission would come loose without a fight and all is good. Didn't go any further for now.

A couple of questions. The transmission is in 2 parts. The rear part must be what is called the gearbox right? Should I remove that first or should I leave it attached to the transmission? Would make things a lot easier if I could remove it first.

Second question: any idea how heavy is the transmission?

Last question: when I remove the last bolt from the transmission, do I need to have some kind of support system to prevent it from falling?
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:52 PM   #13
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If you don't already have a stud and nut on each side, suggest putting in a short piece of threaded rod into one bolt hole on each side to aid sliding the transmission back. Would assume transmission weight at least 150-200lbs.


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Old 10-22-2018, 09:51 PM   #14
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I also put bolts on each side as handles. I also put wood blocks under the trans to support it as it slides back. I lifted it up about a foot myself. It weights under 100. Two can lift it easily. I had it rebuilt for 2500 including new damper plate and cooler.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotoman View Post
when I remove the last bolt from the transmission, do I need to have some kind of support system to prevent it from falling?
Replace 2 of the hex head bolts with 3 1/2" studs. You can can pull it straight back without destroying the damper plate. (Although I would replace the damper plate as routine maintenance.) The studs make it reinstallation easier as the input spline will line up the the damper plate.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:54 PM   #16
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Amazon has small bore scopes that have an attachable magnetic tip. Drain the fluid then go looking. Once you see it go after it with the magnetic tip. If you do end up having to remove the gear box. Look at unistrut or superstrut. They can hold a good amount of weight. Just make sure you know how much it weighs then look at the specs for the span vs weight. I moved a 800lb zf box back with 2 pieces stacked. On a 34" span iirc.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:27 AM   #17
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Before you lift it out, rotate it 180 degrees and shake it!
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:01 PM   #18
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Did you talk to any paragon rebuilders about the possibility of just leaving it alone. I think Great Lakes transmission could help you out with a answer. Maybe place a large magnet on the bottom of the transmission to help hold it down on the bottom.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Clynes View Post
Did you talk to any paragon rebuilders about the possibility of just leaving it alone. I think Great Lakes transmission could help you out with a answer. Maybe place a large magnet on the bottom of the transmission to help hold it down on the bottom.


Federal Marine is a Paragon expert in Chicago.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:45 PM   #20
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Not sure on the design of your dip stick but the following might help.

Back in 2014 I had problems removing my dip stick from my 72C (1018)Velvet Drive transmission. It's a T-handle style dip stick that includes a top washer, a rubber bushing and a washer-nut to squeeze the bushing tight against the dipstick hole (tube) that is part of the casing assembly.

My dip stick was most likely original and the rubber bushing was swollen enough that it tended to stick and was difficult to pull. One day while I was attempting to pull the dip stick while unscrewing the T-handle, I had an "Oh-shit moment". The threaded washer-nut fell into the bottom of the transmission case. After pondering my options, I used a telescopic magnet (approximately 2 ft flexible wand) to retrieve the washer-nut. Worked like a charm and didn't have to pull the tranny...

Needless to say that I bought a new dipstick and peened over the bottom few threads as a nut stop. With the new rubber bushing, it now drops right in and I won't worry about losing the washer-nut.
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