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Old 09-22-2013, 05:52 PM   #21
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Sounds normal, Pack Mule. I had the same thing happen to mine when I nudged it. Scared the bejebes out of me at the time. I've tried not to do it ever since.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:42 PM   #22
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I bumped the bellows and water started to come in . Then just moved it back and it stopped . This can't be normal can it . Does it need more tension ?
It's normal on my boat and I think it needs more compression on the bello but I can't confirm that with anyone in the know. Stay tuned!
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:15 PM   #23
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Met the owner of the company once and it was a very bad experience but the products are good.
There is a story there that I am sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear. Can you elaborate?
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:02 AM   #24
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PackMule, Although there is a rush of water when you bumped the rubber, it is a testament to their sealing ability that the water stopped when they re-aligned. Enclosed is the PYI's description for installation and maintenance for their PSS seal. The site is well done and has a video for installation.

I can not comment on the need to add more pre-load because I do not know that number as it now. If is were me, I would slide the coller back until the seal starts to leak and add the pre-load that the spec call for. that

PSS Shaft Seal: The world’s leading dripless seal.
My experience with these type 1 seal was from processing equipment. From my experience, seal of this type can overcome some misalignment (<.030) and contamination(< 5% TDS) of the liquid in the sealing area. Perfect for the boating environment.

This seal in question has to seal , keep water from entering the bilge, that is exerting ~1.6 pounds of pressure (.43# of hydrostatic head per foot of draft). The sealing surface, steel and carbide, are very wide producing a large surface area to seal and IMHO preform as advertised. Disclaimer I do not sell or install professionally.

There are boaters that hate them and boater that love them. Its you choice what to run in your boat, Good luck.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #25
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PackMule, Although there is a rush of water when you bumped the rubber, it is a testament to their sealing ability that the water stopped when they re-aligned. Enclosed is the PYI's description for installation and maintenance for their PSS seal. The site is well done and has a video for installation.

I can not comment on the need to add more pre-load because I do not know that number as it now. If is were me, I would slide the coller back until the seal starts to leak and add the pre-load that the spec call for. that

PSS Shaft Seal: The world’s leading dripless seal.
My experience with these type 1 seal was from processing equipment. From my experience, seal of this type can overcome some misalignment (<.030) and contamination(< 5% TDS) of the liquid in the sealing area. Perfect for the boating environment.

This seal in question has to seal , keep water from entering the bilge, that is exerting ~1.6 pounds of pressure (.43# of hydrostatic head per foot of draft). The sealing surface, steel and carbide, are very wide producing a large surface area to seal and IMHO preform as advertised. Disclaimer I do not sell or install professionally.

There are boaters that hate them and boater that love them. Its you choice what to run in your boat, Good luck.
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what brand of seal I have. For some reason I only have 2 clamps on my belows and they are at the same end,the stern tube end.I'm going to the boat again tonight and make sure .I wonder if some brands might have the belows molded to the carbon and only clamped on one end.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #26
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There is a story there that I am sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear. Can you elaborate?
Tom,
I'm a little reluctant to put something as negative as this out but he deserves it.
I bought a flexible coupling for my Albin w Yanmar and they must have sold me one for a 20hp engine instead of my 34hp engine. The thrust on the Propeller shaft was enough to push the hex heads of the bolts far enough fwd to make them hammer on the gear box coupling. That ruined bearings in the gear such that I needed to replace it. $800.
When I presented my case to the owner (of PYI (13 years ago)) he came at me like a mad animal yelling on and on about how wrong I was. I was shaking from the experience .. Just being on the receiving end. It was his call to use the coupling I did and the cause of the damage was clear ..... I showed the parts to at least one mechanic and they agreed that the coupling used was for a lower power engine.
That guy was so abrasive I just ate it and bought a new gear from Cascade Engines in Seattle.
So I don't recommend them. However the company could have been sold several times since then ?????
As far as I know their products are great but as I recall most that I was interested in were R&D out of the UK.
To solve my problem w the Albin I bought a new gear from Cascade and another flex coupling (one stet up from the old coupling) from another source and went on boating. I did, however check the coupling for marks frequently for a time.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #27
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Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what brand of seal I have. For some reason I only have 2 clamps on my belows and they are at the same end,the stern tube end.I'm going to the boat again tonight and make sure .I wonder if some brands might have the belows molded to the carbon and only clamped on one end.
My seal is fine .It has all 4 clamps on it . I understand how it works now . Thanks guys .
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:07 PM   #28
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I understand how it works now . Thanks guys .
Ditto...4 clamps.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:42 PM   #29
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Another option for those who are considering installing a dripless shaft seal is Tides Marine, shaft seals. You are able to put an extra seal on the shaft which allows you to change out the seal if it starts to leak while in the water.
Just another option

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That is exactly what my yard guy did. I was replacing both of my shafts so he said that while they were out, the seals are cheap and the labor is already being paid for...and while he was at it, he put an extra seal on the shaft. I thought it was a great idea!!!!
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:04 PM   #30
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PYI Shaft Seal

I like the PSS (PYI), have had them on 2 prior boats and am going into the yard next week to have them put on this boat. I have also had the traditionaly stuffing-boxes, which work, but in my opinion are not ideal as they are intended to weep, which means water into the bilge. The area inside the bellows need to be cleaned periodically, so being able to pull them back and get a flow of water is in my opinion, very helpful and probably intentional. Bits of dirt accumulated in there. You also have to be careful not to over-tension them, much the same as you never compress the daylights out of the more traditional stuffing-boxes.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:56 PM   #31
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We just installed a new PYI on our boat. The original was around 10 years old, which is when they recommend replacement. It probably would have lasted much longer but for one very scary incident. The hose clamps on the stern tube end had worked loose and the bellows rotated along with the graphite ring. This caused the cooling line to wrap around the shaft, cutting off the flow of the cooling water, which resulted in a major overheat. This happened at the end of a several day long trip as we put the boat up on plane to blow out the engine (we had been running around 8-9 knots for several days, and this happened at 14 knots). By the time we noticed the smell of burning plastic and opened up the hatch to the shaft log there was smoke pouring out. Took four gallons of water poured on the shaft and seal before it stopped steaming to the point where I could touch it. Lesson learned - MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THOSE HOSE CLAMPS AS REGULAR MAINTENANCE.

As to the strength and quality of the unit, I was actually able to get it back in place and readjusted to the the point where we were only getting a few drips at low RPM. This allowed us to get back to the dock. I replaced the whole unit with the help of a friend while the boat was in the water. I don't recommend this, but the bilge pump had no problem keeping up while we swapped parts (about an hour), plus we had another pump standing by. I also had to replace the inner cutless bearing becuase the rubber had melted from the heat. So far no problems. Checking the bellows clamps is a noted maintenance item, as is readjusting the ring if it starts to leak at speed, so I blame this one on myself. Worst part is I spent hours in the ER tightening every engine clamp when we bought the boat last year, but never got around to checking the clamps on the shaft seal.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:02 PM   #32
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With low speed shafts like many trawlers...a tradition stuffing box with the new Teflon packing can be fine tuned to only have an ooze of water and it will stay cool...generally after an 8 hour run I bet less than a cup may have come in the boat...sometimes I'm not sure any came in but the shaft is moist and cool.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #33
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I used rad hose clamps for several years after taking on LOTS of water twice but switched to a shaft zinc (clamp style) flat on the ends. Have had no trouble but after reading all this I'm tempted to install 2 hose clamps in addition.

But if I actually think of this as that big a threat I probably should pull out the PSS and go back to a regular stuffing box. Think'in
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #34
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....wonder what Dashew uses.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by IntervaleII View Post
Another option for those who are considering installing a dripless shaft seal is Tides Marine, shaft seals. You are able to put an extra seal on the shaft which allows you to change out the seal if it starts to leak while in the water.
Just another option

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Early this year during a haul-out, I changed out my old PSS seal for a Tides Marine unit. Expensive, but excellent reputation. My PSS was plain old worn out and I couldn't get it to stop misting. Once back in the water, the Tides Marine unit wouldn't seal. The Yard was perplexed since they had installed so many of the units and it never failed them before. I mic'd the shaft and it was barely 2000ths out in the seal area. After adjusting to no avail, I yanked the boat again and put back the PSS seal. Frankly, I prefer the Tides Marine design, and it's true....the water gush of the PSS unit does concern me, but it's done a good job for years, so... One thing though....I ran into the owner of Tides Marine at the Miami Show and he gave me his card...good for a free seal on the next haul-out. He thinks the metal spring must have been missing from the inside of the lip seal. Possible.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #36
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....wonder what Dashew uses.
Probably whatever he wants...but does it really matter????... as thousands of seasoned boaters have have millions of sea miles under their keels that either support or don't the products out there.

These days with Teflon packing...I think I get more water in the hull from the assorted leaks and condensation than I do from a conventional packing...no way I'm changing as it's as simple as it gets and the old issue of dripping is all but gone.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:46 PM   #37
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....wonder what Dashew uses.
Better yet, what does the USCG use on their new craft?
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:50 AM   #38
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But if I actually think of this as that big a threat I probably should pull out the PSS and go back to a regular stuffing box. Think'in __________________

Duramax solves all the shaft seal problems with out the chance of a 5000GPH leak,
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