Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2017, 09:30 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Gabe n Em's Avatar
 
City: Point Judith, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: In Sanity
Vessel Model: 1981 Mainship 40'
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 408
propulsion of the future for FD boats?

up for discussion today:

Pod drive Cruise 10.0 fixed pod for motorboats / sailboats

And what are your thoughts of this vs the elco inboard motors?

It takes a lot of juice but it's a cool new doo-dad. If you put "twins" in, you'd have more than enough power for a 30 something foot FD boat. how many batteries would you need though for a day of cruising......?
__________________
Advertisement

Gabe n Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:46 AM   #2
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,274
The subject of electric drive for boats is interesting.
I'm happy to watch from a distance as people play with this stuff.
Even the little Torqueedo is kind of fascinating but again, from a distance.
Personally, I am way too much of a motorhead to take a plunge like this but people seem to like their electric drives... I have considered the Torqueedo actually.
The one that makes me really roll my eyes is the Tesla owner who tows an Airstream. I haven't seen him posting on the airstream forum lately but I believe he was serious about using his Tesla for towing. As we have just now crossed the southern US on Interstate 10 with day after 500 mile day I wonder where he goes?
Bruce
__________________

Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:53 AM   #3
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Stuart FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,246
Probably to a charging station.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:54 AM   #4
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,601
I could see something like this drive for a day sailor who requires powered propulsion to get around the harbor. One thing that would appeal to me is it seems like it could run off a house bank. So I could build in more or less capacity as my needs required.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:01 AM   #5
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
The subject of electric drive for boats is interesting.
I'm happy to watch from a distance as people play with this stuff.
Even the little Torqueedo is kind of fascinating but again, from a distance.
Personally, I am way too much of a motorhead to take a plunge like this but people seem to like their electric drives... I have considered the Torqueedo actually.
The one that makes me really roll my eyes is the Tesla owner who tows an Airstream. I haven't seen him posting on the airstream forum lately but I believe he was serious about using his Tesla for towing. As we have just now crossed the southern US on Interstate 10 with day after 500 mile day I wonder where he goes?
Bruce
I think he went up in a ball of lithium flame. I wouldn't have lithium batteries (this generation) aboard my boat if they were giving them away. Which they clearly are not
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:16 AM   #6
Wannabe
 
Britannia's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe n Em View Post
up for discussion today:

Pod drive Cruise 10.0 fixed pod for motorboats / sailboats

And what are your thoughts of this vs the elco inboard motors?

It takes a lot of juice but it's a cool new doo-dad. If you put "twins" in, you'd have more than enough power for a 30 something foot FD boat. how many batteries would you need though for a day of cruising......?
No the same, but I have been thinking about an electric motor as a get-home motor for my single engine boat. I have a 20kW generator that could power a 240V AC motor (pretty efficient these days.) 20kW is a bit low for a get home for my size boat, but calcs suggest it could push her along at 4kt. Big head seas would be a different story.

Richard
Britannia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:27 AM   #7
Guru
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 600
Seems we had this question come up a bit ago maybe someone can combine the threads.

Electric motors are fine its really mostly a battery problem at this point. Looking at the numbers and converting everything to kilowatts a lifeline AGM 8d contains 255 amps of current at 12 volts. That's 3060 watts, but in reality you can only use 1/2 of the capacity before needing a recharge. So 1530 watts divided 70.3 kg equals 21.7 watts/kg for an energy density comparison. The lithium "x" torqeedo pack according to the spec sheet is 2685 watts per pack, but at least you can use all its capacity. So 2685watts/24.3 kg is 110 watts/kg. Better you say until you compare it to diesel. Diesel fuel is a whopping 13,400 watts/kg. You'll need over 121 kg of those torqeedo batteries to give you the energy packed into 1 kg of diesel fuel. Then you still need to figure out how to charge them.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:58 AM   #8
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,093
Everybody thinks the future is going where it's headed at the present.

Advances will be made .......
Not only to electric devices and the batteries they are dependant on but to the drive devices we have right now.
Most thought cars would be power by gasoline turbines including Chrysler. That was in the 50's. Since then there's been a great number of improvements made to the reciprocating piston gasoline engine and it's still very much in use .. 62 years later.

Electric is very popular now but for the foreseeable future I'd put my money on modifications of the power producers and drive systems we have now.

The supercharged ecological people want to throw out oil and coal power completely and just use electricity. Not even close to possible. Our industrial system would'nt support a small percentage of the people we have today if we suddenly became Amish. Young people are very impatient. One can speed up evolution but only so much. Perhaps only a small percentage of the people on earth that we have now will be able to survive with the limited amount of power available then and the overpopulation situation will be a thing of the past - the present of course.
Most will think the above is very pessimistic but evolution must take place before the young and old alike can walk through the door into the future.


cafesport,
I like your post and I especially like your new avatar. Hope it will be a symbol of your presense for years to come. Years sounds extreme but we are talking about the future.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 12:17 PM   #9
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,846
To put it into perspective, that $2,600 battery pack will power that pod at full continuous output for 15 minutes. It will probably take full continuous output of one of those pods to push a 30' trawler to 6 kts. So about $10,000 worth of batteries will let you cruise for an hour.

So, stick with a diesel which will cost about $10,000 for that trawler, but the fuel will cost a couple of bucks each hour and you can easily carry enough fuel for a hundred hours of cruising.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 02:03 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
bunker7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 32
Does the electric motor have a reverse function? Couldn't find where it was stated.
bunker7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 06:03 PM   #11
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,892
Electric boat motors don't have a gearbox, but they do have a variable speed drive along with reverse.

I investigated the electric power option before I replaced my diesel engine and fuel tanks. It certainly is possible to to get a 100 nm cruising range on a FD trawler at 5 knots, but it is expensive (about 3 times the price of installing a new diesel engine and tanks). It is also more complicated, and heavier overall. It takes a lot of batteries.
If you had a marina to recharge every night it would work fine, as lithium batteries have very fast charging capabilities. With solar, you would need a huge amount of real estate to keep up with the power usage. Perhaps a catamaran covered in panels may suitable; monohulls don't have the space.
When the battery size, weight and cost are reduced by 50%, I'll consider an electric boat again.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 07:04 PM   #12
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,751
"When the battery size, weight and cost are reduced by 50%,"

It may be a very long wait, battery tech has been worked on for over a century.

For a very small % improvement .

When a batt can put out as much energy as a gallon of fuel , at the same size,cost and weight, batts might be useful.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 08:00 PM   #13
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"When the battery size, weight and cost are reduced by 50%,"

It may be a very long wait, battery tech has been worked on for over a century.

For a very small % improvement .

When a batt can put out as much energy as a gallon of fuel , at the same size,cost and weight, batts might be useful.

The present day lead acid batteries produce 30-40 watt hours per kilogram of weight. This alone is a considerable improvement on early technology.
The new L-ion batteries are now producing 220 wh/kg. A 600% increase in efficiency just in the last 20 years. That's not a small % improvement.
A new L-ion battery has been produced that lasts 20,000 cycles.

Now that they are starting to be mass produced for golf carts and cars, the prices should start coming down rapidly. Sony and others have been nailed for price fixing L-ion batteries. We should start getting some competitive pricing soon. GM announced they were paying $145 per kW/hr for batteries in the 2116 Chevy Volt. That sort of number makes electric power look attractive.

I don't know if batteries will ever pack as much energy as a gallon of fuel, but I do know diesel engines will never be as quiet, or as clean, or rechargeable by the sun or wind.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 08:22 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,646
Meanwhile all these lovely pollution free battery's are been produced and charged using 1000s of tons of coal and petroleum fuel .And by the time they pay for there initial investment they are due for replacement . Yep great idea
gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 08:55 PM   #15
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,093
Kinda like the plug in cars that burn coal. Pollute more than gegular cars.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:10 PM   #16
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,514
Who need a propellr anyway, the real future of trawler propulsion is ths:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 11:37 PM   #17
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,983
We have "clean coal" now.Every piece gets washed with dishsoap before use.
Australia exports billions of tons of coal, but can I buy some for the fire at home? Nope.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 12:05 AM   #18
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaston View Post
Meanwhile all these lovely pollution free battery's are been produced and charged using 1000s of tons of coal and petroleum fuel .And by the time they pay for there initial investment they are due for replacement . Yep great idea
Of course batteries aren't pollution free but the overall process is less damaging than the use of fossil fuels.
And If they pay for their initial investment anytime during their life cycle it is a good investment.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 03:51 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaston View Post
Meanwhile all these lovely pollution free battery's are been produced and charged using 1000s of tons of coal and petroleum fuel .And by the time they pay for there initial investment they are due for replacement . Yep great idea
That and the fact that batteries are charged with electricity produced by burning fossil fuels. I doubt anybody will be allowed to build more hydroelectric power plants and nuclear has a lot of resistance as well.

It is far more efficient to burn fuel to directly power a boat than it is to burn fuel to make electricity, transport it long distances, convert it to low voltage DC and use it to charge batteries to run electric motors to power a boat.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 03:53 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Of course batteries aren't pollution free but the overall process is less damaging than the use of fossil fuels.
And If they pay for their initial investment anytime during their life cycle it is a good investment.
Read my post above. The process of making electricity to charge the batteries produces pollution. It's just somewhere else so you don't see it.
__________________

rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×