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Old 02-19-2012, 07:29 AM   #41
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Propane Fueled Outboards

Parks,

Nice job getting David onto Ship Shape TV to talk about the propane outboards! He looked a bit nervous, but did a great job.

On topic... I think people need to understand that these outboards are only going to be a option. They are a great "new" technology that will provide a cleaner and cheaper alternative to messy gas motors, but they aren't for everybody. There will always be people that find one reason or another (valid or otherwise) not to use, or even accept, alternatives to good-old gasoline. We all have our reasons to use what we use, but if there is a market for these, they will sell. Plain and simple. With the widespread use of propane in the business world (and why is that? it's more efficient... you really think they would do it voluntarily just for kicks?) it was just a matter of time before someone came up with a propane outboard for mass-market delivery. Use it...don't use it, I don't care, but it IS a better fuel than gas in almost every way. (Well, except for the method of ground extraction.)

Personally, I MAY transition over in the future, but I have just bought a Nissan 8HP gasser and I'm not ready to let it go just yet. I am also waiting until the higher HP models come out. Still, I'd like to try the 5HP and see if it's enough. I don't know how I can be so patient on the trawler and so impatient in the dinghy. When I get in 'Special Purpose', I want to get to where I am going in short order. :-D




-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 19th of February 2012 08:31:20 AM
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:20 AM   #42
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Hi Gonzo,
The Ship Shape thing was a total surprise. Dave was faking it! He had never heard of propane outboards ten minutes before. One of the sales reps who call on us said that Ship Shape would be coming by to film, but he didn't tell us when or what the subject would be. I haven't seen the show yet. Dave told me that he made a mistake and said the propane cylinders could be stored in a locker. He meant a locker vented overboard. Propane gas is just as dangerous as gasoline vapors. I didn't even get to the store until they were done filming. I've run into John Graviscus a couple of times. He seems to be a nice guy and very smart. He would like for me to buy advertising on his show. Do you think I should?
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:51 AM   #43
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

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koliver wrote:
Ken

Got me.

I am that guy who has a propane gen on the RV and never posted anything about it.
*Fortunately you had the good sense to buy a Beaver. ;-)

Ken
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:06 AM   #44
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Ken

That was my wife.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #45
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Gonzo, I finally saw the show. Dave looked like a deer in head lights! He also screwed up the run time on a pound of propane for the 5HP. He said an hour at WOT, 1/2 hour would be closer. It's early in the game for these engines and I don't want to exagerate the benefits of propane outboards. It could come back to bite me in the rear. I think you should call him on Wednesday, I'll be out of town, and ask for the goofy looking guy from the TV show. Maybe we should wait a week before we mess with him. He'll be dealing with the boat show aftermath and will be grumpy. That's why I'm going fishing!
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:43 AM   #46
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

HopCar,

What are the weights on these engines.**4 cycles are heavy in comparison to 2 cycles.* Weight is a key factor.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:16 AM   #47
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

The 2.5 weighs 37.4 pounds and the short shaft 5 weighs 49.6 pounds. This is about what other four cycle outboards of the same power weigh. I agree with you about weight. I had a little 2HP Suzuiki 2 stroke until recently and it was about a third less heavy than these four strokes. Are any of the manufacturers still making small two stroke engines?
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:29 AM   #48
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Propane Fueled Outboards

Quote:
HopCar wrote:The 2.5 weighs 37.4 pounds and the short shaft 5 weighs 49.6 pounds. This is about what other four cycle outboards of the same power weigh. I agree with you about weight. I had a little 2HP Suzuiki 2 stroke until recently and it was about a third less heavy than these four strokes. Are any of the manufacturers still making small two stroke engines?
*Yes they all do but you can not buy them here in the US. I think there is a company that exports from China that will ship here but I'm afraid that if the Customs folks get a wild hair you might not get your engine.* Also if you go to the islands you can buy them new in the name brands such as Yamaha, Honda and all of the rest.* You just have to bring them in which I don't think that would be such a hard thing to do.

The key will be to get 8-10hp at 50#'s.* But when you add an oil pump 2#'s and four quarts of oil 6#'s and a filter 1# plus valve train parts*50#'s becomes the new 75#'s or 80#'s.


-- Edited by JD on Monday 20th of February 2012 10:30:46 AM
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:17 AM   #49
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

I wish I had decided to throw more money at that little Suzuki. Oh well, it gives me an excuse to try one of the propane outboards. Lehr is planning something in the 10hp range but it will be as heavy as the other four cycles. 2Cycle Propane! It would be hell getting the oil into those propane tanks.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #50
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

In California, two-stroke engines are restricted but not prohibited.* Quoting from the state's website:
<ul>[*]Two-stroke engines are not "banned" for use on all waterways in California, nor is there any plan to do so.[*]Carbureted and electronic-injectiontwo-stroke engines are considered high-emission engines. Generally, these engines were manufactured prior to 1999.[*]A carbureted two-stroke engine can emit up to 25-30 percent of its fuel unburned into the water or atmosphere, which is why high-emission engines are prohibited on somelakes.[*]There are no salt-water or river restrictions in California on high-emission two-stroke engines, excluding personal watercraft (vessels such as Jet Skis) bans in some areas. For example, San Francisco has prohibited personal watercraft within 1200 feet of its shoreline. See "Local Restrictions" on our Web page for a list of lakes.[*]Direct injection two-stroke engines, made since 1999, are considered clean emission engines and can be used on every water body in California, with some exceptions not related to emission limits.[*]A new direct injection two-stroke engine will normally have a label sticker (with 1 to 3 stars) on its engine cover indicating that it meets California Air Resources Board emission regulations for 2001, 2004, and 2008 for vessel engine manufacturers.[/list]The state regulations, from the California Air Resources Board (ARB) Recreational Marine Engine Program, are concerned with the manufacture and sale of NEW marine gasoline two-stroke engines. ("New" means the engine has never been sold to an end-user.) The ARB regulations ordered vessel engine manufacturers to build cleaner emission engines meeting increasingly strict standards with steps in 2001, 2004, and 2008. These ARB regulations do not affect the use of any vessels on waterways, other than the fact that consumers will obtain improved gas mileage from the new models now on the market.

A small number of cities, counties or districts have adopted ordinances on drinking water reservoirs that restrict or ban the use of high emission, carbureted or electronic fuel injection (EFI) two-stroke marine engines.

To date, there are only 11 lakes with use conditions for high emission vessel engines, mostly in northern California. There are no salt-water or river restrictions based solely on high emission vessel engines.

Cleaner technology direct-injection two-stroke marine engines, manufactured since 1999, can be used on all waterways in California, except for some waterways that have generic prohibitions, such as banning all motorboats or all personal watercraft.* (end of quote)

*
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #51
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Quote:
markpierce wrote:
In California, two-stroke engines are restricted but not prohibited.* Quoting from the state's website:
<ul>[*]Two-stroke engines are not "banned" for use on all waterways in California, nor is there any plan to do so.[*]Carbureted and electronic-injectiontwo-stroke engines are considered high-emission engines. Generally, these engines were manufactured prior to 1999.[*]A carbureted two-stroke engine can emit up to 25-30 percent of its fuel unburned into the water or atmosphere, which is why high-emission engines are prohibited on somelakes.[*]There are no salt-water or river restrictions in California on high-emission two-stroke engines, excluding personal watercraft (vessels such as Jet Skis) bans in some areas. For example, San Francisco has prohibited personal watercraft within 1200 feet of its shoreline. See "Local Restrictions" on our Web page for a list of lakes.[*]Direct injection two-stroke engines, made since 1999, are considered clean emission engines and can be used on every water body in California, with some exceptions not related to emission limits.[*]A new direct injection two-stroke engine will normally have a label sticker (with 1 to 3 stars) on its engine cover indicating that it meets California Air Resources Board emission regulations for 2001, 2004, and 2008 for vessel engine manufacturers.[/list]The state regulations, from the California Air Resources Board (ARB) Recreational Marine Engine Program, are concerned with the manufacture and sale of NEW marine gasoline two-stroke engines. ("New" means the engine has never been sold to an end-user.) The ARB regulations ordered vessel engine manufacturers to build cleaner emission engines meeting increasingly strict standards with steps in 2001, 2004, and 2008. These ARB regulations do not affect the use of any vessels on waterways, other than the fact that consumers will obtain improved gas mileage from the new models now on the market.

A small number of cities, counties or districts have adopted ordinances on drinking water reservoirs that restrict or ban the use of high emission, carbureted or electronic fuel injection (EFI) two-stroke marine engines.

To date, there are only 11 lakes with use conditions for high emission vessel engines, mostly in northern California. There are no salt-water or river restrictions based solely on high emission vessel engines.

Cleaner technology direct-injection two-stroke marine engines, manufactured since 1999, can be used on all waterways in California, except for some waterways that have generic prohibitions, such as banning all motorboats or all personal watercraft.* (end of quote)

*
*I don't think anyone said they were banned.* You just can't buy a new one.* So banned or not once the old ones die there will be no more.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:53 AM   #52
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Quote:
2bucks wrote:
................................ I buy gasoline once per year. I dump whatevers left to a pail to take home for the lawnmower while I'm still in the boathouse. .....................

You don't really transport gasoline in a pail, do you?
*
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:58 AM   #53
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

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rwidman wrote:2bucks wrote:
................................ I buy gasoline once per year. I dump whatevers left to a pail to take home for the lawnmower while I'm still in the boathouse. .....................

You don't really transport gasoline in a pail, do you?
*

*Sure, an old oil pail. I think you may be thinking open top pail and no, I don't use one of those. Buying oil in 5 gallon pails from the jobber is the best way to get some oils. Hydraulic, transmission and even motor oil if your engine sump is very large. For instance, my motorhome has a C9 Cat engine with a 34 quart pan. Opening 34 quart bottles to pour in would be an all afternoon project. Even 8*1/2 gallon jugs gets tedious.*A couple 5 gallon pails and a pump makes refilling an easy project.

I use gallon jugs in the boat with a single Lehman 120, it's just 3 gallons. If I had twins I'd probably be using pails there too.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:17 AM   #54
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

It would be hell getting the oil into those propane tanks.


OIL (and dirt ) is usually in most propane , and a good system will use a T with a dead leg pointing down to collect the gunk.

Adding oil to a 2 stroke from an oil tank was done by Steyer Damler Puch (Sears ) in the late 1950's.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #55
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

FF, I was joking about two stroke propane outboards but I guess with oil injection it could be done.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:49 AM   #56
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RE: Propane Fueled Outboards

Thinkin' the same thing as my 2 hp Mariner is now 28 years old and I can no longer get parts for it.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:58 AM   #57
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Check it out

Used Boat Equipment has two new propane outboards offered from Lehr. Guess the manufacturer is looking to get the word out. Boat Outboards
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:58 PM   #58
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Forklift, The prices of the Lehr outboards, on that site, are below the minimum advertised price (MAP) set by Lehr. That dealer will be hearing from Lehr about that soon.
The trick is that Lehr can tell dealers what they can advertise them for, but they can't tell a dealer what to actually sell them for. Any Lehr dealer should be glad to match or beat those prices. We were selling them for less than that at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat Show. You just need to ask.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:38 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Forklift, The prices of the Lehr outboards, on that site, are below the minimum advertised price (MAP) set by Lehr. That dealer will be hearing from Lehr about that soon.
The trick is that Lehr can tell dealers what they can advertise them for, but they can't tell a dealer what to actually sell them for. Any Lehr dealer should be glad to match or beat those prices. We were selling them for less than that at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat Show. You just need to ask.
HC,I was surprised at how low the pricing was. And they certainly are a good looking OB. If I were in the market for an outboard I would certainly consider them.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:01 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
The 2.5 weighs 37.4 pounds and the short shaft 5 weighs 49.6 pounds. This is about what other four cycle outboards of the same power weigh. I agree with you about weight. I had a little 2HP Suzuiki 2 stroke until recently and it was about a third less heavy than these four strokes. Are any of the manufacturers still making small two stroke engines?
Weight was a real consideration for me and that's why I chose the Honda 2HP at 27 lb. I think Suzuki has one that weighs a couple pounds more and is water cooled, not air cooled.
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