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Old 07-14-2017, 04:56 AM   #41
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Pretty sure 1/2" corresponds with 13mm, but it`s still a hard shiny metal object. Maybe the experts can tell if it could get sucked up by the oil feed, and what might happen. I`m never keen on assuming coincidence, if something unusual happened, and a previously well tested engine is doing something unusual, there might be a connection? OTOH maybe it never even made it to the sump.
1/2" drive - big hunk of metal.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:12 AM   #42
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Ksanders, you are correct, in a dead cylinder, no blowby out of valves unless the guides are shot. I was thinking of my old 944 engine when I had to rebuild its head, it was valve guides. My bad - what you get when you armchair diagnose. Thank you for the correction.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:52 PM   #43
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Ksanders, you are correct, in a dead cylinder, no blowby out of valves unless the guides are shot. I was thinking of my old 944 engine when I had to rebuild its head, it was valve guides. My bad - what you get when you armchair diagnose. Thank you for the correction.
No correction here! We're all just armchair diagnosing the problem, praying we are never in the same situation.

Just the concept of visualizing in abstract these things shows how your brain works. Yor are a natural troubleshooter I think.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:16 PM   #44
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That's kind - with the possible exception of computer software, I grew up with the attitude that if one human could build something, another could fix it. My huge failing is lack of patience and a diminishing ability to fix things while doing boat yoga.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:24 PM   #45
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I grew up with the attitude that if one human could build something, another could fix it.
Me too. Have been mostly applying it to computer software and systems for the last 20 years. I'm actually enjoying this. Building some callous on my hands, doing some wrenching, solving some mechanical challenges, hanging out on my boat, and learning lots of new stuff. I had planned to be in Vermont or Quebec about now, but this is OK too. Maybe I'll still make it. In the meantime, here is this morning's view



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Old 07-15-2017, 04:29 PM   #46
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Update, since I've directed friends and family here to monitor my situation :-)

Life at anchor is grand. I like where I am and am very protected and secure. Weather is glorious. So rather than try to stick to any aggressive or arbitrary timelines I took a break over the last couple of days. Was just sitting here goofing off with the generator running thinking I should get back to work when the generator started hunting a bit.

I knew that I had some fuel delivery issues early on, but thought I had resolved them. Now I think I need to revisit that. Nothing that can't be done here. Maybe I need a rainy day to spur me into action :-)
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:55 AM   #47
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"Maybe I need a rainy day to spur me into action :-)"

Or the sound of silence from the noisemaker?
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:36 PM   #48
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Woohoo! Let's fix the genset!

What is it?
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:48 PM   #49
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Woohoo! Let's fix the genset!

What is it?
Not broken. I just heard a little sputter at one point that made me think that there still may be some air in the (shared) fuel system.

If I can tear myself away from my computer I'm going to get back at it today.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:32 PM   #50
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Update: got a little rain shower and went back at it.

I found air in the loop between the fuel tank and filter. Filter sits below the fuel tank. Interestingly it's happening on both sides. It's possible it's been like that forever, as once cleared there doesn't seem to be any new air introduced when fuel is flowing. In any case I cleared it, pumped a few gallons of fuel through the system and proceeded to the motor test. I'm certain that it's not causing the motor issues so I put it down the list.

Put motor fully back together, changed the oil, bled the IP and injectors, cleaned the bilge. I'm getting good at that stuff.

Motor still doesn't start willingly when cold. Once fully up to temp starting is OK. Could be compression related but also could be timing related.

Went out for about an hour, and nothing has really changed.

Someone mentioned a compression test earlier, and I agree that this might be informative. I am lumping this in with the excessive blowby for the time being, hoping that the conventional wisdom on cause-effect is not necessarily applicable to my case. If I had a tester at hand I probably would have used it by now, but I don't.

So that leaves injector timing. It's possible that the shop has timed the pump to a different mark than the one currently set to on the motor and looking back at my bumbling fumbling unmounting and mounting of the pump I realize that this could have happened without my awareness. There is a pump locking protocol that prevents this from happening, but I didn't follow it. Saw the keyed shaft and in my ignorance didn't recognize the dangers of not sticking to this protocol. I didn't intentionally skip this step, but had some issues with the locking and didn't take the time to repeat the process after I inadvertently unlocked it.

I've read that there is a timing mark inside the pump that can be checked to confirm TDC, but that requires breaking the seal and I don't think I'll go there.

Next step: make absolutely sure pump is locked to (motor) TDC, pull it and visit my buddies at the injection shop. Should be an easy check for them to make. Shop is close to my home and it's about time I showed my face there anyway.

Wish me luck!
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:11 PM   #51
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Break a leg!
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:29 PM   #52
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Visit to the pump shop today confirmed that my installation had bad timing - looked like I was 10-15 degrees late from what I could see peeking over their shoulders. That's consistent with the starting and running problems I think.

Rather than adjusting the pump they locked the pump to TDC according to their specs and I'm going to adjust the gear position on the motor to align pump TDC to motor TDC.

Now obviously I could have caught this on day 1 had I locked properly during the pump install. But leaving this aside it would seem that there are some disconnects. Pump shop times to a spec that they get from a computer lookup based on pump number. Cummins specifies a certain timing mark on the gear. My motor is set to timing mark C, and that's what is on the data plate. But service manual says Lucas CAV times to B and C is used for a different pump. Will be interesting to see whether I align to another timing mark. I've read about this happening in other BT installations.

Am cautiously optimistic.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:52 PM   #53
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Correction: Lucas CAV normally times to D, not B. That's where I fetched up.

Motor starts fine now, develops full power as near as I can tell, and sounds fine. No noticeable fuel in the exhaust. All cylinders running hot. Now consuming oil rather than making it. Some grey smoke at higher outputs. This after a couple of hours of running at 1800 - 2500 rpm. Am changing the oil just to make sure no remaining dilution and doing a 40 mile run this afternoon, and am still hopeful that the rings will set. Hooked up the CCV and it seems to be handling blowby, but there is still more than there should be.
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:15 AM   #54
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One more update, and some speculative conclusions.

I've now traveled a couple of hundred miles at a range of speeds since I last posted. Motor starts reasonably well - not easily when stone cold, but it starts. Once started sounds and feels fine to me. Smoke is either non-existent or blue. Occasionally heavy blue. Oil consumption is high. Haven't measured accurately but I'm well into my second 5 gallon pail. Blowby seems to be less, but still significant, some oil coming out of my Racor CCV.

My conclusion when looking back at the history is that I ran the motor for the first crucial hours in a state where there was likely steady fuel washdown due to incorrect timing. I'm coming to the conclusion that a teardown will be necessary to properly remediate the damage. But I've also decided that this can wait until the end of the season. For now I'm keeping the oil topped up and holding onto a faint hope that there will be some degree of self-healing as I operate normally.

This is entirely on me. I've been stupid and negligent in many respects. But it's my motor and it's been a growth experience for me. If I do have the motor out I will try to do as much of the work on it as I can. Not exactly what I signed on for originally, but part of my model of ownership, and could even be fun.

Any further suggestions or experiences are welcome. In the meantime if you see a mainship 34 ghosting by leaving a faint blue haze it's likely me :-)

ps there is a 'bon ami' treatment that I'm thinking about. Think that's probably lunatic fringe territory for most folks here, but I may go there. Will let you know if I do. Google it.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:01 AM   #55
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Hmmm. I`ve used Bon Ami to clean windscreens of silicone residue from car washing products, very effective,and no negative effects on the glass itself. I get the logic about fixing glazing on bores, but is that your issue? OTOH, you seem to be looking at a tear down and rebuild, what`s to lose?
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:04 AM   #56
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what`s to lose?
Exactly. Think I'll give it a few days more though before trying it.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:54 AM   #57
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Isn't that what the government required to be used to destroy "cash for clunkers " engines ?
Wait for others to weigh in.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:34 AM   #58
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"I just heard a little sputter at one point that made me think that there still may be some air in the (shared) fuel system.

I always worry about "shared" fuel systems.
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