Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-03-2017, 07:56 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Biloxi
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 80
Power steering or hydraulic?

Asking for feed back from more experienced boaters than myself. Thinking of replacing my 33 y.o. hydrolic steering system on my 30' trawler. I would assume the basic principles of a 33 y.o. system and current systems are similar. It takes 4 complete rotations of the wheel to stimulate a response in direction, however, a power steering system would be more sensitive to the movement of the wheel yet more complex and more components that could go wrong (sometimes more is not better). What are your thoughts?
__________________
Advertisement

Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 08:19 PM   #2
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,041
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 08:24 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Keysdisease's Avatar
 
City: South Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 476
IMHO Power steering for a rudder on a 30 ft trawler is way overkill. If you want fewer turns Sea Star has a selection of helm pumps that pump various capacities and depending on the ram diameter the turn to turn can come way down. This will of course come with a price, the effort to turn the wheel will increase, but for the rudder of a 30ft boat I can't imagine that being excessive.

Keysdisease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 08:36 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Nightsky's Avatar
 
City: Comox
Country: Canada
Vessel Model: 1994 Carver 390
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 159
4 complete turns before the boat starts to change direction? How many turns hard over to hard over? You should see a direction change before 4 turns. Any possibility you are low on oil?
Nightsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 08:50 PM   #5
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,908
Keys,
I have a Capalano pump that has that feature. I've got it set on about 2.8 turns lock to lock but it's faster than it would seem as I've set up for 45 degrees deflection each way. Re the adjusting feature the steering gets harder the faster you set it. If I had mine set at 4 turns L to L it would be real easy. But I like fast steering.

As to effort I can come about fast using one finger but the finger gets a bit abused. At slower steering speeds (like 6 turns L to L) it's much easier re effort to turn. My steering has a very large rudder/slave cylinder so it is slow. To make it fast I need to pump lots of fluid. If I had power steering I'd probably set up at one turn to each side or two turns L to L. The main thing I like about hydraulic steering is when you get on course the system won't change/move and frequently I can stay on a course for several minutes w my hands free .. not touching the helm. However I like/prefer cable w a quadrant and sprockets and chain near the helm .. like Steve has on Panope.

I agree the OP should go w straight hydraulic.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 09:05 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 689
I have hydraulic steering installed in the 70s. I added a jog lever in the autopilot pump circuit, and never turn the wheel by hand. Using the steering angle gauges I set the rudders where I want with the jog lever when maneuvering. All other times I use the autopilot.
With the wheels it's 3 1/2 turns lock to lock.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 09:26 PM   #7
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,026
Manual hydraulic steering should be more than enough for this application. As stated, Seastar or capilano systems are great for this size boat. Why complicate with power steering pumps?
Sailor of Fortune is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2017, 11:09 PM   #8
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,324
Right, if it takes 4 turns to "stimulate a response", then something is wrong. If it's 4 turns stop to stop, i.e. full port rudder to full stbd rudder, that's different. But if your boat's direction doesn't respond for 4 turns, then something is clearly very wrong and just needs to be fixed. It's some combination of air in the system and/or low fluid, but you will need to sort out how it got that way, not just refill and re-bleed.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 12:06 AM   #9
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Right, if it takes 4 turns to "stimulate a response", then something is wrong. If it's 4 turns stop to stop, i.e. full port rudder to full stbd rudder, that's different. But if your boat's direction doesn't respond for 4 turns, then something is clearly very wrong and just needs to be fixed. It's some combination of air in the system and/or low fluid, but you will need to sort out how it got that way, not just refill and re-bleed.
Could also be leaking cylinder piston seals worn and allowing oil to pass without moving the piston. Fix the system.

My 32 ft bateau has a Wagner adjustable pump and I do use that feature. Long boring runs it is turned for little rudder movement or the boat overcorrects with small wheel movement.
Rough conditions especially following seas or tight docking I adjust for max. rudder with min.wheel movement.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 11:23 AM   #10
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
I would fix what you have. Sound like is low on fluid and has to be bled of air. Might need helm pump repaired. Check the basics first. I usually try fixing what I have and usually a lot cheaper. After sitting for the winter i have to fill and bleed the system. Part of owning an old boat.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 01:23 PM   #11
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,094
I've owned or piloted boats with all types steering [even pulley/cable in boats of yesteryear - lol].

Photo shows my favorite [inside rear view our Tolly's salon helm station]. Also had similar steering-type work very well on other make boats. These babies last and last with little to no need for maintenance.

Our Tolly requires three steering wheel turns for hard to hard; in salon or on bridge.

Any speed above couple knots, boat responds well with slight turn of steering wheel. Any speed below couple knots I leave steering/rudders centered, don't touch the wheel and maneuver boat with twin's throttle/trany.

I believe in KISS for nearly all Marine items. Steering is one!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Steering - Salon Helm.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	106.0 KB
ID:	65408  
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 03:19 PM   #12
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,908
Art,
Oh yes rack and pinion. Is it more expensive than rotary types or just take up more space? Also it must be much more drag free that the rotarys. Light feel?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 03:38 PM   #13
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Art,
Oh yes rack and pinion. Is it more expensive than rotary types or just take up more space? Also it must be much more drag free that the rotarys. Light feel?
Yes... light, responsive feel.
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012