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Old 03-18-2012, 01:24 AM   #21
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

Check all the ground wire connections. It sounds like the main (Heavy wire) ground between the battery and engine may have a bad conection, making the lighter ground wire take all the load. That would reduce cranking speed and cause the smaller ground strap to heat up.

Sometimes the crimped connection where the lug attaches to the cable corrodes, especially if the cable or lug are not tinned marine parts. The heat shrink sleeve makes the problem invisible. A jumper cable from battery ground to a solid ground on the engine will bypass the problem, if that works, check the cables extra closely.

Bill
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:01 AM   #22
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

Ditto!
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #23
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

that sounds like it could be a very good possiblity ill have to check that. I just got North Harbor's phone number the other day ill give them a call thanks for the help Im going back up sometime this week and ill give another update.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #24
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

Good plan Soterio. Just remember. Before you need to worry about bleeding anything or preheating you need to have the engine spinning over well. Warming the engine room could make a big difference on this.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:11 AM   #25
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

"I replaced the wire and believe that i was sending too much power to it"

Not possible , the engine was designed to start with a BIG bunch of cranking amps , probably the wire was simply undersized or corroded.

The best engine start device is a block heater installed inside the block in the cooling water.

These are usually $75+ or so and will require 1350-1500W to operate and overnight is not too long to get the engine ready.

Fuel will wax if it is summer blend , your local truck stop will have the proper product to allow summer fuel to flow in freezing temps.

Pour it into the fuel tank.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:09 PM   #26
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

Quote:
CaptSoterio wrote:
okay, so i bought a 1963 Royal Craft Commercial Crab Boat and its located 2 1/2 hours away from me so its a little hard to get work done right now. When I went to look at it before i bought it, the owner showed me how to start it and took me out in it to show me that is was able to run. NOW that was in July. I work on a boat in alaska and i was gone for 3 months and was not able to start and run the boat in that time frame. So I made some trips up to the boat, first time i went up i tried to turn over the Perkins and it clicked as if the batteries were dead, Stupid me didnt bring the batteries home instead the next trip up i took a battery charger that i thought was heavy duty enough...however, i broke the battery charger as soon as i went to turn it on and continued to try and use it however it started smoking while i tried to turn over the engine. So took the batteries with me that time, got them both charged 1 8D commercial battery and 1 regular marine battery. took them up today and of course i didnt get all the connections back on. I thought i did and spent about an hour or so tearing apart the ignition to figure out why i wasnt getting any power to the starter when i discovered one last negative cable that i didnt hook up. Okay, now i got everything connected and i go to crank. I crank a couple times, then stop and go to crank again however i see smoke start to rise from the starter so i stopped and looked to see another smaller ground wire melt before my eyes. it fell off and at that point the engine wouldnt crank again, as if there was no power to the ignition so i take it that wire that melted off needs to be there grounded.

So I dont know much about diesels. this is my first boat and im trying to get it able to go commercially crabbing in the not to distant future. I would very much apprieciate any info or help anyone can give as there is not much free help online for diesels especially the perkins engine.

*

thanks!
So if I'm reading this right, you are located in Bremerton, Wa and the boat is 2.5 hours away, but somewhere in Washington State right or is it in Alaska?* If it's in Washington you don't have to worry about cold temps or gelling fuel as the day time temp has been in the 45 - 60 degree range for the last month.

You first of all need to solve your battery to starter problems.* The hot start*designed for the 6.354 requires a little bit of machining (drilling*a hole in the intake manifold),*plumbing a three*foot length of brakeline between the hot start and the engine fuel filter to supply fuel and a*14 ga wire between the hot start and a momentary switch on the dash that's connected to 12 volt B+*.** If you buy the kit it comes with install. instructions.**It's really that simple.

Larry B
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:39 PM   #27
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

the boat is a little further north of bellingham. Temps have been warming up but its still been chilly up there. So far nothing new. Friday im heading up with my mechanic to get things done right. i recently just got some diesel 911 from walmart which states to pour it into the fuel pump filter to help de ice it. and it also says to pour it into the fuel take to fix the gelling. Im bringing a heat gun and space heater with me to heat the engine and engine room along with an IR thermometer to keep track of engine temp. havent called north harbor diesel yet but i talked to a local place here in bremerton and i also called perkins and they gave me another number to call to ask.

If i get the engine running and it warms up safely. Im bringing it 14 hours to bremerton from its current location. anyone think of anything i should be worried about to check into? my mechanic is planning to take the trip with me in case something goes wrong.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:46 PM   #28
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

You don't need to worry about Diesel gelling in Bellingham or Blaine! A tired 1960's vintage Diesel engine without glow plugs or other starting aids does start up reluctantly when it's cooler though. Your space heater should be a help. Good batteries, cables and connections to get the juice to the starter will be a must. Cranking speed and duration create the heat to get ignition! Good luck.

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Old 03-27-2012, 04:36 AM   #29
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RE: Perkins t6.354m NEED HELP! Greenhorn Captain

i recently just got some diesel 911 from walmart which states to pour it into the fuel pump filter to help de ice it. and it also says to pour it into the fuel take to fix the gelling.

I would worry 10X as much about screwing up the fuel filter , an air leak, rather than gelled fuel at over 45F.

Are you down in the low 30's or below?
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #30
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ok heres the update: went up with my mechanic yesterday and we ended up pulling the starter and the solenoid. Which after i tried to crank the engine, and he heard the click sound and partial engine turns. we let the engine room heat up with the heater however im a little worried about leaving the space heater there overnight so it only had an hour to heat the engine room and it did but the engine block was still in the mid 40s i purchased a IR thermometer to make sure i could get accurate engine temps and put it to good use. Still no full engine turns. ADDED Diesel 911 to fuel tank only. we didnt have our instructions to bleed the fuel system correctly so we didnt touch the fuel filter. like some have said, the temperatures might not be the issue so much anymore. SO right now, we got back home late but we have the starter and we are going to test it today or tomorrow along with the solenoid. hopefully a replace wont be too costly. Sounds like starters like to go out on boats sometimes? i hope it will get my engine running. hard to think what other issues it could be.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:31 PM   #31
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to answer you FF about the temps where the boat was at. I went up one time and there was ice, i know that last month there was snow up there and now its started to warm up to the mid 40s.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #32
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Adding fuel antigel won't do any harm but as far as helping you it is a waste of time. Diesel will not gel at the temps you are experiencing. I live further north than you and many years , including this, there has been ice and fuel gelling has never been a problem.

No matter, if the engine is in good shape and the starter AND batteries AND wiring are good the engine will start.

I realize you may have a starter problem but when you get it back check the voltage at BOTH the batteries and at the starter motor contacts. You should see a minimum of ~ 10-10.5V under cranking conditions. If lower then you have a problem with the starter circuit or the batteries.
Check and post what you see and maybe we can help.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:25 PM   #33
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starter was tested and is dragging from what i was told. It is not spinning very fast at all. Im looking for a rebuilt or new starter now and im seeing prices of $400 here in town. Waiting to hear back from north harbor diesel. however the starter im looking for seems to be obselete.

Ive found some online that are in the $200 range but im nervous that if i order one from the net that it wont last long. I'll pay $400 - $500 or so but I want something that works. I would just like it to be in the $200-$300 range.

C Letric
The batteries were checked and they are putting out 11v. The first time i started to get this issue, the batteries were fully charged by budget battieries.

I'm also convinced the cold has nothing more to do with the starting issues. Just kinda bummer when I started the engine over perfectly and it ran perfect when i bought it in the late summer and now in the winter it doesnt want to go. Im hoping the problem is fixed with a starter. At least i know what the issue is. To add to this, My mechanic said my wires all look good.


anybody have experience with ordering any cheap starters from the internet?? or better for me to go local? Ebay shows some that are less than $200 but ofcourse im worried about it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #34
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As long as your starter isn't shorted out or otherwise damaged, take it and the solenoid to a qualified repair shop and have them serviced and rebuilt if necessary. It's probably a Delco Remy 35 MT type 175. The rebuild parts are still available the last time I looked?

Are you saying your battery meter is showing 11 volts while cranking the engine over? If your batteries, after charging, are floating at 11 volts with no load on them, they are probably in need of replacement. One 4-D or 8-D battery is sufficent to start a 6.354.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #35
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Greetings,
When I had problems with a Lehman starter, a local starter/alternator shop was able to rebuild it with Ford tractor parts. I don't know if there is a Perkins equivalent solution. Worth a shot. Borrow a battery load tester to check the condition of your batteries. Similar to:

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Old 04-03-2012, 12:00 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
One 4-D or 8-D battery is sufficent to start a 6.354. LB
Actually, my 6354's have been starting for years on a small automotive size (group 35?) battery. I'm set up so I can parallel the two start batteries, but I've never needed to do that. Also, I second the idea of getting the old starter rebuilt. Unless the windings are shorted, I can't imagine why it can't be fixed.......Arctic Traveller
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:05 AM   #37
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I agree, take it to a starter/alternator rebuild shop.

When you get the starter back, rebuilt or new, and it cranks well then you are up and away and good.

However, if there is still trouble and the starter seems to be slow do the voltage drop test both at the batteries and at the starter terminals.

That is the best way to find out if the problem lies in the cableing, the batteries, or the connections.

If you haven't done it yet then, while the starter is out, go through ALL the connections and clean the terminals and lugs and make sure they are all tight. Put some Nev R Seez or some Noalox on the contact surfaces. It will stop or radicallly slow future corrosion. Don't forget the negative side of the circuit.

By the way, when you said 11V where and when was that? If that was at rest, at the batteries, that's poor and may be undercharged or bad battery. If that was while cranking that's good but it makes a difference when measured. Was it while cranking?
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:05 AM   #38
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okay, i'll search for a repair shop to rebuild it, sounds like it would be much cheaper?? so far this is what i found online DELCO 1109962 THRU 1113639 ALTERNATORS AND STARTERS BY OEM #

which is the best price unless i go to ebay.

As far as the batteries go, what im hearing now is making it hard to swallow.

yes the 11v were without a load on the batteries. Ive got an 8-D with 1300 cold cranking amps and a marine battery that you would see at walmart. Not sure the specs on it. Before ( in november 2011) i had the 8-D charged and checked. so i was hoping it was still good. also my mech took a screwdriver on the solenoid and slid it against the contacts to show that there was electricity getting to the starter.

im not sure if that means anything about the batteries or not but im sure the starter is bad right now. ill pray that the 8-D is good for now. I will definately test the batteries completely the next time i can get up there. How many volts should the batteries put out??
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:20 AM   #39
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Should be Delco Remy 35MT model 1113695, This number may have been superseded over the years. But check with a shop that rebuilds alternators and starters they will have the latest. Check the tag on your starter.

If your batteries are at 11 volts at rest, then you have at least one bad cell and it will probably not start your engine. You need to get a new battery.
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:28 AM   #40
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alright, ill look for new batteries too.

also there is no tag on the starter. 1113639 was groved into the side along with 12 volt and some initals "CW JR"
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