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Old 11-13-2015, 04:55 PM   #81
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A not unusual approach is to bypass the inter cooler completely from either the raw water or jacket water loop. Unless you are routinely trying to get the last 30 - 40% of usable power from your engine via the inter cooler cooling the charge air, it is an approach to consider.

Many diesel engines identical in displacement and other base configurations to their IC brethren run with a turbo and no inner cooler. Once you are using jacket water rather than raw water you have already started down the de-rating path. So go all the way, leave your existing cooler (unless it is a manicooler maybe) in place and just re-plumb around it. Been there and done that. In fact I was able to compare a Perkins Sabre 225TI (Cat 3056) with an intercooler functioning to its stable mate engine where the IC was bypassed.

Try it and see how your engine performs. Perkins has made thousands of 6 cylinder marine engines without inter coolers. If you routinely run around 1700 to 1900 RPM, eliminating the IC should pose few issues.
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Old 11-13-2015, 05:39 PM   #82
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Greetings,
Mr. s. 30 - 40% is a LOT. Typo perhaps?
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:00 PM   #83
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Greetings,
Mr. s. 30 - 40% is a LOT. Typo perhaps?
RT, not a typo. My 225TI has a near twin, still in production, that is NA and rated at 135 HP. A Cummins 5.9 with a turbo but no cooler is rated at 220HP as compared to its popular turbocharged and after cooled 5.9 at 330HP. The Cat 3208 goes from 210 HP NA up to 435 with many HP in between.

I'm only guessing at what the available power of the OP's engine would be on the dyno with a turbo but no cooler. A 30 to 40% drop is certainly what other engines are showing on their rating sheets. How much power does he use - or need for that matter? That is the question.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:09 PM   #84
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I use it all sometimes. My typical cruising day includes a few sprints at WOT, usually no more 20 minutes each. With a clogged system I was still seeing a 10 degree temp drop across the intercooler, raw water.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:15 PM   #85
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No enhancments to the cooling system. As you can see, my engine is horizontal but a vertical should be even easier. I have never had a problem of any kind altho I was told it would not work for several reasons that haven't been mentioned here. Just faster warm-ups, less smoke, and no smoke while trolling. No bubbles, no hot spots, no second heat exchanger, no pump, no tanks. The manifold is right where a huge heater would be if the engine were in a passanger bus so it's not rocket science, as with all things on a boat, simple is better.
Do you have a hot water heater on your boat? The hose that runs to your manifold appears to be the one that runs to my hot water heater.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:56 PM   #86
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Do you have a hot water heater on your boat? The hose that runs to your manifold appears to be the one that runs to my hot water heater.
You are right so that is the port that needs to be bored out from 1/2 to 3/4" NPT in order to connect 1" hose to front of manifold. the rear of the manifold connects to the 6 bolt plate on the rear of the cylinder head. No hot water heater on my boat. Where does your hot water heater return to??
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:27 PM   #87
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Instead of a Heath Robinson why not contact the company who make the original marinising kits ?
They are www.ejbowman.co.uk
Alternatively if you need technical advice why not contact Mike Bellamy at www.lancingmarine.co.uk Mike has a wealth of knowledge on marinised diesels, very helpful and can supply marinising parts worldwide.
I know these company's are based in the UK but we live in a small world today thanks to the internet.
Do it once, do it right.
I Hope you get a positive answer because those Perkins are a real workhouse if they are set up right, you can't blame Perkins if they're not.
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:29 AM   #88
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I would never plumb around an existing air cooler. At high boost on some of the engines mentioned, the air temperature leaving the turbo will be 500 degrees. In fact one quick check for high long term loading on a Cummins (which is painted white) is to look for brownish discoloration on the paint on the pipe from the turbo to the air cooler.


That 500 degree air is cooled to about 250 with jacket water and maybe 100 with sea water. If the engine is designed to inject diesel with 100 degree air (or 250) and you switch to 500 degree air, your EGTs will spike which means burned valves, melted pistons, etc.


The foregoing will only happen if you run hard. If you only run at very reduced loads you will be ok, but why take the risk of someone opening the throttle for a few minutes.


David
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Old 11-15-2015, 02:05 PM   #89
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Here is a good intercooler complete for $250. and in nice shape too only 1600 hrs 161884129580 ebay item #
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Old 11-15-2015, 02:53 PM   #90
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I would never plumb around an existing air cooler.

The foregoing will only happen if you run hard. If you only run at very reduced loads you will be ok, but why take the risk of someone opening the throttle for a few minutes.


David
Well David, I found myself well over a thousand nm from "sanctuary" with no alternative but to bypass a badly leaking air cooler. So a few trips to the local NAPA store in AK provided the necessary plumbing parts and pieces to do the bypass.

Voila I ended up with a turbo charged but not inter cooled engine perfectly set up to run that way provided I did not exceed about 2000 RPM with the existing prop. Hundreds of IR readings confirmed what was the acceptable operating RPM.

This experiment got me to thinking as to the correctness of Eric and others on this forum about how overpowered most of our FD TRAWLER vessels are, excluding of course Mainships and many others with SD hulls designed to plane.

So yes, you would never bypass your cooler, unless of course you found yourself in far away places, where some of us travel, with a leaky inter cooler and a desire to get somewhere at trawler speeds.
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:01 PM   #91
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Here is a good intercooler complete for $250. and in nice shape too only 1600 hrs 161884129580 ebay item #
Maybe best to think marine age and not hours, especially if parked in salt water.
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:53 PM   #92
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Maybe best to think marine age and not hours, especially if parked in salt water.
I can't speak to where it was "parked" but from the pictures the tube stack looks great. Mine drains itself when moored maybe this one did too.
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:15 PM   #93
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I couldn't see bypassing the air charge cooler. The ebay unit is similar to mine - but you'd have to see the inside of it, up close, to know if it's any good. Mine had heavy corrosion and you'd have to know how thin the cast iron sleeve is. Seems like plastic would be a much better housing for the unit.
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:18 AM   #94
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I couldn't see bypassing the air charge cooler. The ebay unit is similar to mine - but you'd have to see the inside of it, up close, to know if it's any good. Mine had heavy corrosion and you'd have to know how thin the cast iron sleeve is. Seems like plastic would be a much better housing for the unit.
I know of someone who made an intercooler housing out of plastic. It looked like a nice option.
I also know of more than one who bypassed their intercooler. As long as you keep cruising rpm under about 2200 you'll be fine that way according to the data I saw. They were both more "northern" boaters with somewhat cooler air temps. Short bursts at WOT would be ok, but I wouldn't do 20 minutes that way.
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:24 AM   #95
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I couldn't see bypassing the air charge cooler. The ebay unit is similar to mine - but you'd have to see the inside of it, up close, to know if it's any good. Mine had heavy corrosion and you'd have to know how thin the cast iron sleeve is. Seems like plastic would be a much better housing for the unit.
So drop him an email and ask for more pictures. The tube stack alone is worth 2X what he is asking.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:08 PM   #96
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My air charge cooler had heavy scale on the inside. I cleaned it all out with a wire wheel, even the nipples, one of which lost about 3/16" on one side. It's all solid iron and despite the corrosion, it's structurally sound. I added epoxy to the inside of the casing and I'm adding a zinc to help address the steel breaking down. I don't know if those will save it for four more decades, or just until the next season. But it's due for de-assembly next year. It the casings show wear problems next year then I'll have to consider the plastic housing option.

Thanks,
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:24 AM   #97
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From my experience, if you keep the rpm down, you're keeping the horsepower WAY down (remember the propeller law?) so if you monitor the manifold air temp and keep it conservatively low (say 200 - 220 F) you'll be fine bypassing the intercooler.

In my Prairie, the cruising speed of 7-ish knots only uses around 25 horsepower, the engine could use a charge air HEATER. I am more concerned with running too low a power setting, so occasional sprints to keep everything clean and loose is called for.

GOOD LUCK!

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Old 11-25-2015, 11:38 AM   #98
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My air charge cooler had heavy scale on the inside.
Thanks,
RR
What do you think RP, was it even acting as a charge air cooler for all these years? How would one know on a low HP demand Perkins?

The site that seems to discuss not performing air coolers is boat diesel. Discussions there center on trying to get the last few hundred RPM or so out of the engine and not able to do it safely due to a plugged air cooler.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #99
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What do you think RP, was it even acting as a charge air cooler for all these years? How would one know on a low HP demand Perkins?

The site that seems to discuss not performing air coolers is boat diesel. Discussions there center on trying to get the last few hundred RPM or so out of the engine and not able to do it safely due to a plugged air cooler.
I tested the temp on each side of the cooler. Air entering the cooler was 80F and exiting was 70F, however that was at a low power setting.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:23 AM   #100
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Quote:
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"Are all the 34 Mainship and Mainship IIs powered with Perkins? All T6.354?"


My 1978 Mainship 34 was a Perkins T6 - 354 at 165 hp and all of the ones I had seen up here on the East coast were the same - but there could be other versions I am not aware of although the power increases on that engine typically came much later on in years.


"Is the Perkins a 200-hp turbocharged engine? "
Mine was a 165 Turbocharged engine - I believe the turbo was a 'switzer'.


"Are parts really hard to get?"
As mentioned above the exhaust manifold for mine had to come form England and was expensive as boat parts go - most other things were not so bad as aftermarket or common parts were still available.


"Any significant problem areas with that engine?"
Exhaust, turbo rebuild, heat exchanger, and the rotary fuel pump that liked to 'hunt' until it was refitted with "O" rings that were unaffected by low sulfer fuels.


FWIW - My engine had a "U" in the code indicating a 'reverse' rotation engine.

Re.perkins 6.356 diesel: Are parts hard to get? Perkins 6.356 and Caterpilar 3056, same engine,(Since Cat. bougth Perkins back in 1998.)
maybe the Caterpilar people are more alert in the US. concerning for part service, for US. Citizen.
According to Wikipedia; The Perkins 6.litre diesel are described;
"as a higthly succesful engine"
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