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Old 11-28-2012, 09:46 AM   #21
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Does anyone know where I might be able to find rebuild kits for the fresh water/antifreeze water pumps for Perkins 6.354?* I have two engines and one is counter-rotating.* These are the pumps on the front of the engines that are belt driven, not the ones on the sides with nitrile impellors.

I've done some searches, but it seems that most of the hits I get are from companies overseas....

Thanks!
Any in Australia JAT? I'm looking for a new water pump for my 6.354 also

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Old 11-28-2012, 12:09 PM   #22
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Any in Australia JAT? I'm looking for a new water pump for my 6.354 also

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I have been looking for months for a spare contra rotation fresh water pump for may 1972 6.354. Shaft on mine broke, had to drill out old shaft and have one machined and pressed in. If the housing ever goes out will have to replace the whole engine I suppose.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:46 PM   #23
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I have been looking for months for a spare contra rotation fresh water pump for may 1972 6.354. Shaft on mine broke, had to drill out old shaft and have one machined and pressed in. If the housing ever goes out will have to replace the whole engine I suppose.
That's a bit of a bugger. I found a few on eBay and a few in gumtree last night. May be worth a look. If there are some in perth and you're not, I'm happy to go look at them for you and if they are good send it to you and you can just pay into my bank account (as long as you're in Australia that is)

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Old 11-29-2012, 12:19 PM   #24
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I'm in the USA. I have no trouble getting the normal rotation pump. It is the one for the starboard reverse rotation engine. The pumps on e-bay have been normal rotation.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:22 PM   #25
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I know this is an old thread but did anyone find a contra rotation fresh water pump? The shaft in mine broke when the bearing went. Need a complete impeller and shaft at least. 1972 perkins 6.354
That might be a problem.....

BUT....contact Transatlantic Diesel at 800-927-9295, talk to them....they will rebuilt yours if it is rebuild-able.... Couldn't get a precise price....but even if its $200...it would be a good deal. I bought the pump for my other engine from Diesel Parts direct...today for $162.99 + about $14 in freight. Don't need it at the moment...but want a spare.

Perkins....in their infinite wisdom ceased production of the contra rotating fresh water pump....and the repair kit for it....so TAD is about all you have unless you can take it to someone locally that can do it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:28 PM   #26
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Reading this thread has me really wondering. I have twin 6.354's. Obviously the props counter rotate. But I guess I don't know for sure about engine rotation. I really think they both turn the same way and counter rotation is accomplished in the tranny. Now I'm really curious, and will have to check the next time I get in the boat. It's shrunk wrapped for winter so that may be a while. Do some twin installations turn the same way? Now this may be crazy speculation on my part, but is it possible that the pump could work in both directions? I could see how that could work if the vanes are straight. You say say your shaft broke. Can it be welded by a certified welder? can your broken shaft be separated from the impeller? Perhaps a new shaft from a standard rotation pump could be fitted to your reverse rotation impeller. Could a new one be custom made? Perhaps a new impeller could be CNC machined? Given a budget almost anything can be made.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:36 AM   #27
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Reading this thread has me really wondering. I have twin 6.354's. Obviously the props counter rotate. But I guess I don't know for sure about engine rotation. I really think they both turn the same way and counter rotation is accomplished in the tranny. Now I'm really curious, and will have to check the next time I get in the boat. It's shrunk wrapped for winter so that may be a while. Do some twin installations turn the same way? Now this may be crazy speculation on my part, but is it possible that the pump could work in both directions? I could see how that could work if the vanes are straight. You say say your shaft broke. Can it be welded by a certified welder? can your broken shaft be separated from the impeller? Perhaps a new shaft from a standard rotation pump could be fitted to your reverse rotation impeller. Could a new one be custom made? Perhaps a new impeller could be CNC machined? Given a budget almost anything can be made.
I had a spare normal rotation pump. Had a machinist take the shaft out of the impeller and seals out of that one and press in the shaft into the reverse impeller and use the bearing and seals. Had to machine out the housing and press in a shim due to corrosion/rust so the bearing woud be secure. On mine the vanes were reversed. $240.00 US dollars. plus the loss of a good normal rotation pump. I have a friend that builds custom (automotive) hot rods and he sometimes uses an electric water pump on the engines. However I think a normal rotation pump could be made to work if a pulley with a gear attached mounted above a normal water pump with a gear meshing with the above gear would work since the gears would reverse the rotation of the pump.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:49 AM   #28
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Reading this thread has me really wondering. I have twin 6.354's. Obviously the props counter rotate. But I guess I don't know for sure about engine rotation. I really think they both turn the same way and counter rotation is accomplished in the tranny. Now I'm really curious, and will have to check the next time I get in the boat. It's shrunk wrapped for winter so that may be a while. Do some twin installations turn the same way?
Marshal boats (1st maker of Californians) stopped using counter rotating Perkins engines in the early 70's, when Borg Warner introduced the Velvet drive transmission, with models geared for left or right hand rotation. It was no longer necessary and simplified the manufacture and maintenance process.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
Reading this thread has me really wondering. I have twin 6.354's. Obviously the props counter rotate. But I guess I don't know for sure about engine rotation. I really think they both turn the same way and counter rotation is accomplished in the tranny. Now I'm really curious, and will have to check the next time I get in the boat. It's shrunk wrapped for winter so that may be a while. Do some twin installations turn the same way? Now this may be crazy speculation on my part, but is it possible that the pump could work in both directions? I could see how that could work if the vanes are straight. You say say your shaft broke. Can it be welded by a certified welder? can your broken shaft be separated from the impeller? Perhaps a new shaft from a standard rotation pump could be fitted to your reverse rotation impeller. Could a new one be custom made? Perhaps a new impeller could be CNC machined? Given a budget almost anything can be made.
You know....as much as I hate to think it.....I am going to have to do some more research....according to my Perkins Shop Manual....the "contra rotating engine" is supposed to have an "X" in it.....and according to the full serial numbers I have...including build numbers....there is an "X" missing. Sooooo...

I'm wondering if my boat....a 79', with engines built in 77' has a transmission that reverses the shaft.

Well, back in the bilge I go!!

The vanes on the impeller for the fresh water pump are curved... But from what I can tell...the shaft and bearings are the same. The outer casing is a little different and apparently not interchangeable.... I know the "rebuild kit" for the contra rotating engine was discontinued...but the kit for the normal rotation engine is still available...so you would likely get all the parts for the contra rotating pump...except the impeller. The exploded view of the water pump in my manual doesn't indicate any difference...but the parts list does....so I am led to believe its because of the impeller.

I am not an expert, so before you take my word for it....I would talk to someone who is....
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:59 PM   #30
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You know....as much as I hate to think it.....I am going to have to do some more research....according to my Perkins Shop Manual....the "contra rotating engine" is supposed to have an "X" in it.....and according to the full serial numbers I have...including build numbers....there is an "X" missing. Sooooo...

I'm wondering if my boat....a 79', with engines built in 77' has a transmission that reverses the shaft.

Well, back in the bilge I go!!

The vanes on the impeller for the fresh water pump are curved... But from what I can tell...the shaft and bearings are the same. The outer casing is a little different and apparently not interchangeable.... I know the "rebuild kit" for the contra rotating engine was discontinued...but the kit for the normal rotation engine is still available...so you would likely get all the parts for the contra rotating pump...except the impeller. The exploded view of the water pump in my manual doesn't indicate any difference...but the parts list does....so I am led to believe its because of the impeller.

I am not an expert, so before you take my word for it....I would talk to someone who is....
Hopefully for you it is a normal rotation engine and you can get parts from NAPA for massey-ferguston. Caseing and impeller are the only things different on the contra. I'm pretty sure the went to normal rotation when the borg-warner velvet drives came out. I've been in the bilge so much lately that I may need to put in a third helm down there.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #31
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Hopefully for you it is a normal rotation engine and you can get parts from NAPA for massey-ferguston. Caseing and impeller are the only things different on the contra. I'm pretty sure the went to normal rotation when the borg-warner velvet drives came out. I've been in the bilge so much lately that I may need to put in a third helm down there.
Well, I get no joy from my results.... My starboard engine is definitely a "contra-rotating"... so I will either end up sending the pup out for rebuild or as a friend pointed out....installing an electric pump.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:15 AM   #32
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Well, I get no joy from my results.... My starboard engine is definitely a "contra-rotating"... so I will either end up sending the pup out for rebuild or as a friend pointed out....installing an electric pump.
Bugger! I rang Perkins here in Australia and they have new water pumps. Was pleased with the cost too. $239.00 for a Genuine Perkins one. Might be worth giving Perkins over there a call to see if they do new contra's.

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Old 01-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #33
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Bugger! I rang Perkins here in Australia and they have new water pumps. Was pleased with the cost too. $239.00 for a Genuine Perkins one. Might be worth giving Perkins over there a call to see if they do new contra's.

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I recently ordered a pump but it is for the normal rotation.... I called Perkins here...they said no way I could get a new one.....

Is the one that you ordered for "contra-rotating"??
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:59 PM   #34
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Does anyone know what the true Perkins part number is for the counter rotating freshwater pump?
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:31 AM   #35
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In the thread in the classified section, I gave the number 41312322, but on a German parts site, it was a regular rotation pump. TBH, I haven't a clue if the anti-rotation engines have a different number or not. This is all I got. Sorry.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:51 AM   #36
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Well, I get no joy from my results.... My starboard engine is definitely a "contra-rotating"...
Is the impeller completely destroyed?

The reason I ask is if it is still more or less intact you (or a good craftsman) can restore the vanes with epoxy or wax and use it as a form from which to make a mold and cast a few new impellers. If you have them investment cast there will be minimal machining required to finish them.

Since the items seem to be unobtainable, you might be in a position to sell them to someone else in the same position. It is hard to believe you are the only person on the planet with that problem. It might take some time to get your money back but you will certainly have a product that someone needs somewhere someday.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:26 AM   #37
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Boatdiesel's Perkins guru answered this issue on a thread today. Buy a rebuild kit for a non counter rotating pump - it will work just fine. The only difference in the pump is the location of the volute
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #38
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The location? I don't fully understand, Tom. Can you clarify?
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #39
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The location? I don't fully understand, Tom. Can you clarify?
You may best go direct to the boatdiesel thread and ask that question. I'm without the two pumps side by side.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:42 AM   #40
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I posted the question on Boatdiesel forum last night. The answer from one reply was: "The Perkins contra rotating water pump has not been available for about 20 years. However rest easy, exactly the same pump as ´normal´ rotation 6.354 with different volute. Simply purchase water pump overhaul kit and life will be good." Hope this helps you guys who have this problem.
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